Bringing back the old wild and free trade?

trekkie · **Posted:** December 25th, 2010, 12:55 am

i must say, i do wonder how GE will be affected. imagine the new spam of "what is the price i need to know now!"

i do wonder if having a graph of the average prices would help people or just play into the whole manipulate the market.

Adbot · **Posted:** December 25th, 2010, 12:55 am

naphtali14 · **Posted:** December 26th, 2010, 2:36 pm

I haven't played Runescape for a good year at least.. Free trade and the old wilderness would definitely bring me back. Based on current vote results it looks as though everyone is in favor of it.

I agree with Mike's post; RWT never really went away. They mine as well give people what they want and just do their best to fight it. I know a lot of people who would play again if they made these changes.

UPDATE: 90% yes, 8% no, 2% don't mind, current votes: 443279.

trekkie · **Posted:** December 26th, 2010, 6:10 pm

one problem that i will not happy to see again would be ancient magic people freezing people when they just want to go through the abyss.

Aquw VettelS 776 · **Posted:** December 28th, 2010, 10:18 am

No, this shouldn't happen.

To be honest, I care not about the Wilderness and PKing- I never did it pre-2007, and I'm not going to start now.

But the free trade can't be allowed to go ahead. Jagex made the decision, whether we liked it or not, for good reason. It was free-trade that enabled botting, real-World trading, etc.

But it's not just that. With free trade back, what's the point in the GE? The economy will be utter chaos. The GE brought stability, control and predictability to the game. Sure, it doesn't fix everything, but it did far more good than it did bad.

Do what you want with the Wilderness, but leave the Grand Exchange and trade alone. I don't care if people don't like it- it was still the right thing to do.

But think about it logically- even if you do want free trade and the Wilderness. The update in 2007 was the biggest and most influential update in the game's history. 3 whole years have gone by- hundreds of updates and new additions to the game since then- and every single one of them has built upon the big one in 2007. You can't just rip out an enormous part of the game's mechanics and expect it to "just be like the good old days". It's not about whether you prefer free trade or would like being able to have massive stakes in the Duel Arena, it's about the game as a whole. Jagex were criticised so much in 2007 because of that update, but if they go ahead and reverse it now, it will be a terrible mistake.

Reversing this update won't return the game to like it was in 2007, however much you might want it to. It just doesn't work like that. If Jagex go ahead it will take months or even years for the game to return to some sort of normality. Whatever results from reversing the 2007 update will be worse than anything we have now. There is no doubt.

It will destroy the game. And no, I'm not being melodramatic- it's the truth.

Shwa · **Posted:** December 28th, 2010, 11:58 am

I would not be surprised if they made the abyss area non-combat. Enough people would complain about it, and they said they would be moving around certain aspects of the wilderness because of the danger. So I will be very interested to see what they do with that if they decide to bring it all back.

Warren · **Posted:** December 28th, 2010, 2:27 pm

Aquw VettelS 776 wrote:

It will destroy the game. And no, I'm not being melodramatic- it's the truth.

Is there that much of a difference of the consequences of removing it all than the consequences reinstating it all? It was able to survive the removal, I think "destroying the game" is an exaggeration. Unless you mean change the game as we know it, as yeah that will happen as it happened before, but as for destroying it, I doubt it. The biggest difference from last time that I see is the vast majority of players support the revival rather than last time when the vast majority were outraged, so I guess there wont be the same tension... unless they mess it up somehow or there are people who voted in favour of bring it back get affected by an adverse affect and decide that it's Jagex's fault 110%.
Not that I'm saying the game should be put through drastic changes every few years just because it will survive it.

I don't think Jagex's new way of bot detection and stuff is going to be all that effective but I'm sure when all of this is put into practice they will be like "ha ha we have eliminated bots completely 100% of them" like they did when they removed traded and wildy even though it didn't do much to stop them.

Anyways I ended up voting no, mainly because they don't seem set of eliminating all instances of forcing people who don't want to pvp into pvp situtations and that I assume they are going to start banning for RWT again (idk if they even stopped but they shouldn't have since they didn't really stop it) and banning for botting more often, which means more innocent players banned. And unless they have an effecient appeal system now, they have no right to fall back on it for misbans. And for free trade, I've grown used to not having it that I don't care to sacrifice much to get it back.

Adbot · **Posted:** December 28th, 2010, 2:27 pm

hummerwar921 · **Posted:** December 28th, 2010, 3:05 pm

It looks like it's legit after all.

Duke Juker · RSBandB Donor since 07/01/2010

Trial and error. The best way Jagex will find out if their bot detection system works is by reopening up the game like this. Who knows what they'll do if it fails.

Aquw VettelS 776 · **Posted:** December 28th, 2010, 5:02 pm

Warren wrote:

Aquw VettelS 776 wrote:

It will destroy the game. And no, I'm not being melodramatic- it's the truth.

Is there that much of a difference of the consequences of removing it all than the consequences reinstating it all? It was able to survive the removal, I think "destroying the game" is an exaggeration. Unless you mean change the game as we know it, as yeah that will happen as it happened before, but as for destroying it, I doubt it. The biggest difference from last time that I see is the vast majority of players support the revival rather than last time when the vast majority were outraged, so I guess there wont be the same tension... unless they mess it up somehow or there are people who voted in favour of bring it back get affected by an adverse affect and decide that it's Jagex's fault 110%.
Not that I'm saying the game should be put through drastic changes every few years just because it will survive it.

I don't think Jagex's new way of bot detection and stuff is going to be all that effective but I'm sure when all of this is put into practice they will be like "ha ha we have eliminated bots completely 100% of them" like they did when they removed traded and wildy even though it didn't do much to stop them.

Anyways I ended up voting no, mainly because they don't seem set of eliminating all instances of forcing people who don't want to pvp into pvp situtations and that I assume they are going to start banning for RWT again (idk if they even stopped but they shouldn't have since they didn't really stop it) and banning for botting more often, which means more innocent players banned. And unless they have an effecient appeal system now, they have no right to fall back on it for misbans. And for free trade, I've grown used to not having it that I don't care to sacrifice much to get it back.

It's not the "drastic-ness" of the proposal that's the problem, it's the fact that they want to reverse an update that occurred three years ago, and one that which is a foundation for every other update that has come since.

This is an over-used analogy, I know- but it's like ripping the foundations out from under a building an expecting the rest of it to stay standing. The Grand Exchange, trade caps, the "new" Wilderness are all major game mechanics- not just "features" of it. Like I said before, whether you want the old Wilderness and free trade back is totally irrelevant- you have to look at the game as a whole.

Personally, I don't really have a problem with unlimited stakes and the Wilderness, but that doesn't mean reversing a three-year-old update on some sort of whim is the right way to achieve it. I don't know why Jagex are even bothering with this poll- anyone could have told them the outcome of it. It's utterly ridiculous and short-sighted.

Warren · **Posted:** December 28th, 2010, 5:51 pm

Well to continue the comparison, they're not going to rip out most of the foundation and expect it to stand. They feel the foundation is not sufficient for their building so they are going to jack the building off the foundation on supports. They will then remove most of the foundation and replace and add to parts. Knowing Jagex they will probably leave parts of the foundation broken or leave out some parts for later. If there are parts of the building incompatible with the new foundation they will alter the building aswell. Then they will lower the building back on the foundation (and I guess fill in the missing parts later). May not be good or better but I doubt the building will come crashing down because of the altercations.

i.e. it's not just going to be a hey turn on wilderness hey turn off trade limit remove everything implemented to fix the game after the removal of wildy and free trade. They are going to do stuff to stuff to try to make it work. I don't think its going to make the game better especially not within the first while but I don't think it is going to be enough to kill the game.

Aquw VettelS 776 · **Posted:** December 29th, 2010, 3:14 am

Warren wrote:

Well to continue the comparison, they're not going to rip out most of the foundation and expect it to stand. They feel the foundation is not sufficient for their building so they are going to jack the building off the foundation on supports. They will then remove most of the foundation and replace and add to parts. Knowing Jagex they will probably leave parts of the foundation broken or leave out some parts for later. If there are parts of the building incompatible with the new foundation they will alter the building aswell. Then they will lower the building back on the foundation (and I guess fill in the missing parts later). May not be good or better but I doubt the building will come crashing down because of the altercations.

i.e. it's not just going to be a hey turn on wilderness hey turn off trade limit remove everything implemented to fix the game after the removal of wildy and free trade. They are going to do stuff to stuff to try to make it work. I don't think its going to make the game better especially not within the first while but I don't think it is going to be enough to kill the game.

One would hope that's what Jagex would do. But this is Jagex. And in any case, even if they replaced the foundations rather than just ripping them out, there's still the matter of 3 years of development since. It's not necessarily something that can be changed- this can't be fixed just by tweaking a couple of lines of code. It's more intrinsic than that- it's the very "look and feel" of the game.

Like I said, the Wilderness and trade are basic game mechanics- it's what makes RuneScape, RuneScape. Whether we like it or not.

Brimmk · **Posted:** December 31st, 2010, 5:29 am

I have definitively voted "No". The advantages that we could have from free trade are, in my mind, outweighed by the risks and trouble that the wilderness and RTW/botting will cause. The simple fact is, I don't want to have to interact with dangerous PvP on a daily basis. I choose not to go on the PvP worlds, so JaGEx should respect that by keeping pvp separate on a world level. If you look at other MMO's, it's an industry standard to have dangerous PvP separate on dedicated servers used specifically for that purpose. Why can't we just keep PvP worlds? Why do we need the wilderness back? Clans wouldn't even use it anymore even if it existed now, we have clan wars which is a lot more efficient. Why do people, blinded by nostalgia, think that what used to be is that much better? In fact, it was worse than what we have now. PvP worlds are fine, don't fix what isn't broken anymore and if they go ahead with the wilderness, it'll be broken again for (I imagine) at least another year.

Just to clarify, free trade, from an economic standpoint, would be good, with the market regulating prices rather than JaGEx, but it's not worth the trouble that the wild brings.

trekkie · **Posted:** December 31st, 2010, 5:15 pm

honestly duke i've seen botters, some are not hard to spot. there was a bot when i was crafting that kept running around a tree cuz it accidentally traded with me. they should leave high level pmods the ability to temp ban people. jagex would still look over it, to make it perm ban or not.

Cahriz · **Posted:** December 31st, 2010, 5:32 pm

Jagex will prolly say there were too many votes no

trekkie · **Posted:** December 31st, 2010, 5:55 pm

i thought they were showing the poll as it was going on.

anyway, i think too many people who voted yes did so on impulse, and didn't think it through