Einstein: Bible is childish, God is product of human wkness

Mushroom Queen · **Posted:** May 19th, 2008, 10:54 am

Quote:

We have evolution.

It disproves God's existence and also has a lot of evidence supporting it.

How does that disprove that God exists? Because it goes against the first few chapters of Genesis? Genesis, if you've ever read it, splits up human creation into "days" ("yom" in Hebrew, you might want to look up that word). There obviously weren't ideas of genetics, Darwinian principles, etc in that time, so creation was explained in a way that encompassed a relatively straightforward idea that God, through his divine power, created the universe and all life.

The trouble is that I often see Atheists go for this somewhat ad hoc argument that in order to believe in something, you need to submit material proof of its existence. I'm not saying that things should be believed without proof. For example, if somebody believed that I murdered a person, then I'd demand proof for that accusation. Or if someone believed that cars shaped like bananas run better than normally-shaped ones, then I'd ask for proof. The reason I'd ask for proof in these situations (although they contain the word "believe") is that they relate back to a material object that is able to be acknowledged by human senses. God is not an object that can be explained or proven by anything that exists in this world, so it's incomprehensible how some people can laugh at the idea of God, but still believe in aliens.

That being said, I don't think that the Bible proves that God exists. I see the Bible as an account of conversations with God according to various people. Believing whether or not God exists is a choice that's left down to each human being with a free mind. You can really go either way, but it's just sad to see people who think that either side is right over something as irrelevant as proof of God's existence. For me, God is a part of my mind. He's not just a belief, he's a presence that I've always acknowledged as existing somewhere and somehow. I think that the very principle of a god is that there's a force out there that's more perfect and powerful than every atom of every bit of matter on earth. It's not necessary to prove that since it's something that exists in the realm of the abstract. It's something that isn't diminished just because it doesn't exist in the material world.

If you don't want to read all the paragraphs I wrote above, then at least read this: when we attempt to qualify every spiritual idea with material proof, we shut out the part of our minds that deals in abstract thoughts and ideas about this subject.

Adbot · **Posted:** May 19th, 2008, 10:54 am

murdererdood · **Posted:** May 19th, 2008, 12:20 pm

Mushroom Queen wrote:

Quote:

We have evolution.

It disproves God's existence and also has a lot of evidence supporting it.

How does that disprove that God exists? Because it goes against the first few chapters of Genesis? Genesis, if you've ever read it, splits up human creation into "days" ("yom" in Hebrew, you might want to look up that word). There obviously weren't ideas of genetics, Darwinian principles, etc in that time, so creation was explained in a way that encompassed a relatively straightforward idea that God, through his divine power, created the universe and all life.

The trouble is that I often see Atheists go for this somewhat ad hoc argument that in order to believe in something, you need to submit material proof of its existence. I'm not saying that things should be believed without proof. For example, if somebody believed that I murdered a person, then I'd demand proof for that accusation. Or if someone believed that cars shaped like bananas run better than normally-shaped ones, then I'd ask for proof. The reason I'd ask for proof in these situations (although they contain the word "believe") is that they relate back to a material object that is able to be acknowledged by human senses. God is not an object that can be explained or proven by anything that exists in this world, so it's incomprehensible how some people can laugh at the idea of God, but still believe in aliens.

Sorry pet, but that's just naive.

"I don't need proof for my God cause he's real NAH NAH NAH I'M NOT LISTENING HE DOESN'T NEED PROVED".

Grow up. Everything needs to be proven. Just because you don't like the idea of your religious security blanket being pulled away by science and the inquisatorial nature of the human mind is no reason to make ridiculous claims like that. Of course God has to be proven or disproven, to claim otherwise is quite simply ridiculous. There needs to be quantative evidence of God's existence for religious people to win this argument, and the only way that will ever happen is by God taking undeniable direct action upon this world. Not actions that can be argued to be caused by God, actions that are undeniably by God, for example God actually appearing somewhere or doing something of biblical proportions. Until that happens, this debate will rage on until humanity ends or someone manages to effectively make religion redundant by proving how the universe was born.

Incidentally, other forms of life existing are entirely possible, and much more feasible than your sky-god. Look back to one of my posts on the last page - I adressed the fact there.

Quote:

That being said, I don't think that the Bible proves that God exists. I see the Bible as an account of conversations with God according to various people. Believing whether or not God exists is a choice that's left down to each human being with a free mind. You can really go either way, but it's just sad to see people who think that either side is right over something as irrelevant as proof of God's existence.

The argument of God's existence is not irrelevant in any way, shape, or form. When we can finally prove that there is no God to the extent that the unlearned masses realise it as well, we can rid society of the curse of religion and finally work on creating a utopian society.

Quote:

For me, God is a part of my mind. He's not just a belief, he's a presence that I've always acknowledged as existing somewhere and somehow. I think that the very principle of a god is that there's a force out there that's more perfect and powerful than every atom of every bit of matter on earth.

No.

Quote:

It's not necessary to prove that since it's something that exists in the realm of the abstract. It's something that isn't diminished just because it doesn't exist in the material world.

There is no such thing as an abstract, ethereal world. At this point your into the realm of other dimensions, and they don't exist.

Quote:

If you don't want to read all the paragraphs I wrote above, then at least read this: when we attempt to qualify every spiritual idea with material proof, we shut out the part of our minds that deals in abstract thoughts and ideas about this subject.

Theology is, and always has been, redundant. Scientific discussion is both more fruitful and more relevant. There is nothing that cannot be proven or disproven with the aid of science.

Ranging God · **Posted:** May 19th, 2008, 3:11 pm

Slimppu wrote:

Ranging God wrote:

OK, at least we have Evidence?
What evidence do you have besides "I cant see him" There is a reason that the Bible and the Koran are the highest selling books int he world. Lies dont sell..

We have evolution.

It disproves God's existence and also has a lot of evidence supporting it.

But let's take your examples, too. Yes, we cannot see him. Neither we have heard a single case where evidently someone has heard him speak since the times of the Bible, but as said, you can't prove that it happened.

Lastly, you claim that lies don't sell. Then how come Lord of the Rings, which is entirely fiction, is one of the best selling books in the world?

A book is not evidence. And God does not exist.

LotR is suppose to be fiction... The Bible is for believe, and thats why it sells.

Slimppu · **Posted:** May 19th, 2008, 3:27 pm

Ranging God wrote:

LotR is suppose to be fiction... The Bible is for believe, and thats why it sells.

How do you know?

The last time I checked the Bible, it didn't say that what's written in it is true.

Ranging God · **Posted:** May 19th, 2008, 7:05 pm

Slimppu wrote:

Ranging God wrote:

LotR is suppose to be fiction... The Bible is for believe, and thats why it sells.

How do you know?

The last time I checked the Bible, it didn't say that what's written in it is true.

Ok, guys the bible was written off of actual events. IT IS A HISTORY BOOK.... If you take out the religion it is history on the muddle east.. You honestly cant argue that...

Evelyn · **Posted:** May 19th, 2008, 7:18 pm

That's true, but the world wasn't created in 6 or 7 days.

Whatever it was...

Adbot · **Posted:** May 19th, 2008, 7:18 pm

Ranging God · **Posted:** May 19th, 2008, 7:53 pm

Cliff Dude wrote:

That's true, but the world wasn't created in 6 or 7 days.

Whatever it was...

Yeah, translations. see the word for use of time in the original text doesnt give a specific length. I am Catholic and we recognize this. We dont teach that the world wwas created is 7-24 hour days. The protestants, mostly Baptist, take it more literally than we do ( I have nothing against you guys)

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** May 20th, 2008, 2:46 am

The bible is no history book. I don't care if a god is real or not, it's not my concern. If hes real hes to big and powerful to care much about me and I'm to little and stupid to properly understand him.

But it is *not* a history book. Theres no actual proof, beyond that book that i know of that backs up what it says. I know the King and Queen of England used to live in huge Stone castles, how do i know this? Because there still here to this day.

I know the Romans had a massive empire once and was rather advanced in several areas and how do i know this? Beause they've left behind clues and signs of it.

All we have with the bible is the bible, a book. It's not a history book and if it was ever taught in my history class I'd have to question what that teacher was doing.

Slimppu · **Posted:** May 20th, 2008, 7:44 am

Ranging God wrote:

Slimppu wrote:

Ranging God wrote:

LotR is suppose to be fiction... The Bible is for believe, and thats why it sells.

How do you know?

The last time I checked the Bible, it didn't say that what's written in it is true.

Ok, guys the bible was written off of actual events. IT IS A HISTORY BOOK.... If you take out the religion it is history on the muddle east.. You honestly cant argue that...

I've read fantasy books that take place in our world.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't be fiction.

And the Bible doesn't say it's a history book either.

Ranging God · **Posted:** May 20th, 2008, 8:11 am

Slimppu wrote:

I've read fantasy books that take place in our world.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't be fiction.

And the Bible doesn't say it's a history book either.

Since when does a book written say "I am going to be a history book"
All the books in the Bible and taken from the greatest scholars of the time, who wrote about life back then, and who they followed. That's history..

metalic_fire · **Posted:** May 20th, 2008, 10:40 am

Ranging God wrote:

Since when does a book written say "I am going to be a history book"

The answer I would say is never in fact the only thing that makes people debate on that subject is because the history you speak of is what most will call unbelievable history. Or in this case we'll just say complete nonsense.

On topic: Now I seriously find this Einstein fellow to be pretty darn right stupid. How can anyone say God is the weakness to humanity even when not everyone believes in God. Perhaps I'm missing the point he was trying to make but it seems very ignorant.

Mushroom Queen · **Posted:** May 20th, 2008, 6:01 pm

murdererdood wrote:

Mushroom Queen wrote:

Quote:

We have evolution.

It disproves God's existence and also has a lot of evidence supporting it.

How does that disprove that God exists? Because it goes against the first few chapters of Genesis? Genesis, if you've ever read it, splits up human creation into "days" ("yom" in Hebrew, you might want to look up that word). There obviously weren't ideas of genetics, Darwinian principles, etc in that time, so creation was explained in a way that encompassed a relatively straightforward idea that God, through his divine power, created the universe and all life.

The trouble is that I often see Atheists go for this somewhat ad hoc argument that in order to believe in something, you need to submit material proof of its existence. I'm not saying that things should be believed without proof. For example, if somebody believed that I murdered a person, then I'd demand proof for that accusation. Or if someone believed that cars shaped like bananas run better than normally-shaped ones, then I'd ask for proof. The reason I'd ask for proof in these situations (although they contain the word "believe") is that they relate back to a material object that is able to be acknowledged by human senses. God is not an object that can be explained or proven by anything that exists in this world, so it's incomprehensible how some people can laugh at the idea of God, but still believe in aliens.

Sorry pet, but that's just naive.

"I don't need proof for my God cause he's real NAH NAH NAH I'M NOT LISTENING HE DOESN'T NEED PROVED".

Grow up. Everything needs to be proven. Just because you don't like the idea of your religious security blanket being pulled away by science and the inquisatorial nature of the human mind is no reason to make ridiculous claims like that. Of course God has to be proven or disproven, to claim otherwise is quite simply ridiculous. There needs to be quantative evidence of God's existence for religious people to win this argument, and the only way that will ever happen is by God taking undeniable direct action upon this world. Not actions that can be argued to be caused by God, actions that are undeniably by God, for example God actually appearing somewhere or doing something of biblical proportions. Until that happens, this debate will rage on until humanity ends or someone manages to effectively make religion redundant by proving how the universe was born.

Incidentally, other forms of life existing are entirely possible, and much more feasible than your sky-god. Look back to one of my posts on the last page - I adressed the fact there.

Quote:

That being said, I don't think that the Bible proves that God exists. I see the Bible as an account of conversations with God according to various people. Believing whether or not God exists is a choice that's left down to each human being with a free mind. You can really go either way, but it's just sad to see people who think that either side is right over something as irrelevant as proof of God's existence.

The argument of God's existence is not irrelevant in any way, shape, or form. When we can finally prove that there is no God to the extent that the unlearned masses realise it as well, we can rid society of the curse of religion and finally work on creating a utopian society.

Quote:

For me, God is a part of my mind. He's not just a belief, he's a presence that I've always acknowledged as existing somewhere and somehow. I think that the very principle of a god is that there's a force out there that's more perfect and powerful than every atom of every bit of matter on earth.

No.

Quote:

It's not necessary to prove that since it's something that exists in the realm of the abstract. It's something that isn't diminished just because it doesn't exist in the material world.

There is no such thing as an abstract, ethereal world. At this point your into the realm of other dimensions, and they don't exist.

Quote:

If you don't want to read all the paragraphs I wrote above, then at least read this: when we attempt to qualify every spiritual idea with material proof, we shut out the part of our minds that deals in abstract thoughts and ideas about this subject.

Theology is, and always has been, redundant. Scientific discussion is both more fruitful and more relevant. There is nothing that cannot be proven or disproven with the aid of science.

The curse of society is religion? Actually, I'm pretty sure the curse of society is the fact that people are inherently greedy and corrupt regardless of what religion they are (if any). If religion is as bad as you make it out to be, so is Atheism.

As for such thing as abstract ethereal world, I never asserted that. I said that there is a part of the mind that deals in the abstract. I thought that was pretty obvious from what I wrote. Anyway, I'm sorry you're resorting to half-insults by suggesting that my beliefs exist as a "safety blanket". I explained why I believed what I believe without attacking anyone, so I guess you're the one using Atheism as your safety blanket.

murdererdood · **Posted:** May 21st, 2008, 12:19 am

Mushroom Queen wrote:

The curse of society is religion? Actually, I'm pretty sure the curse of society is the fact that people are inherently greedy and corrupt regardless of what religion they are (if any). If religion is as bad as you make it out to be, so is Atheism.

No on so many levels. How many wars has Atheism caused? How many people have been slaughtered in the name of Atheism? No wars, and very few, if any. If you're going to mention Stalin here, he, and most of the leaders of the USSR, was/were Jewish, and the liquidation of the kulaks and the great purges only happened to force Russia into being a more communist state. Nothing to do with atheism.

Religion is a pathetic security blanket used by people who don't want to realise that science is destroying their irrational beliefs. It's the paramount cause of strife in the world, and it always has been, and it will cause untold suffering until humanity comes to it's senses and shakes it off.

Quote:

As for such thing as abstract ethereal world, I never asserted that. I said that there is a part of the mind that deals in the abstract. I thought that was pretty obvious from what I wrote. Anyway, I'm sorry you're resorting to half-insults by suggesting that my beliefs exist as a "safety blanket". I explained why I believed what I believe without attacking anyone, so I guess you're the one using Atheism as your safety blanket.

I hate condescension. Get off your moral high horse. Put forward valid arguments in place of trying to discredit the people you're arguing against.

Incidentally, i suppose i read "It's not necessary to prove that since it's something that exists in the realm of the abstract" wrong, if that wasn't what you meant. It does not belittle my prior point though. You simply cannot assert something like that - Everything needs to be proven.

Mushroom Queen · **Posted:** May 21st, 2008, 2:48 pm

murdererdood wrote:

No on so many levels. How many wars has Atheism caused? How many people have been slaughtered in the name of Atheism? No wars, and very few, if any. If you're going to mention Stalin here, he, and most of the leaders of the USSR, was/were Jewish, and the liquidation of the kulaks and the great purges only happened to force Russia into being a more communist state. Nothing to do with atheism.

How many wars has Atheism caused? Well I suppose you're right, it's only wrong to kill people as long as it's in the name of something. Therefore, using religion or atheism as an excuse for killing people is a totally valid excuse rather than blaming these actions on the fact that the perpetrators are often insane greedy people who want to force their way of life on others. You're choosing to lay blame on religion for the fact that people, no matter whether or not they believe in God, are going to kill fellow humans. Eliminating religion would just eliminate one excuse from the equation. It's horribly naive to even think that the absence of religion would make humans less inclined to harm each other and cause injustice in the world.

murderdood wrote:

Religion is a pathetic security blanket used by people who don't want to realise that science is destroying their irrational beliefs. It's the paramount cause of strife in the world, and it always has been, and it will cause untold suffering until humanity comes to it's senses and shakes it off.

Let me rephrase your statement so that it's referring to Atheism (just for the fun of it):
"Atheism is a pathetic security blanket who don't want to realise that religion is destroying their irrational beliefs. It's the paramount cause of strife in the world, and it always has been, and it will cause untold suffering until humanity comes to it's senses and shakes it off."
See? That makes you look like a crazy religious fundamentalist who's trying to force their views on others because they believe that it'll lead to a utopia and we'll all be saved and hold hands with each other and sing. I hate to be the pessimist here, but religions going nowhere and the world will never change under Atheism.

mudererdood wrote:

I hate condescension. Get off your moral high horse. Put forward valid arguments in place of trying to discredit the people you're arguing against.

Incidentally, i suppose i read "It's not necessary to prove that since it's something that exists in the realm of the abstract" wrong, if that wasn't what you meant. It does not belittle my prior point though. You simply cannot assert something like that - Everything needs to be proven.

My moral high horse? I just used your description of me "using religion as my safety blanket" back on you. I suppose that'd make you on a moral high horse too.

Anyone's welcome to assert their beliefs, ideas, thoughts, etc. If someone believes something different from another person, then I don't see why it's pertinent to prove why they believe that. It'd not change their minds or even prove which side is "right" and "wrong". You're seeking to ask for physical proof for something that doesn't deal in the physical. It's like demanding that someone fit a square peg into a round hole in order to make yourself appear to be right.

I don't bother convincing you that you should be religious. I frankly don't care, I just stated my opinion and was met with accusations of willful ignorance by someone who believes that life is meaningless and our only hope lies in science. You're welcome to believe that way, but as long as science creates as many problems as it does solutions I'll continue to believe that both religion and science are able to work side by side.

Yazackie90 · **Posted:** May 24th, 2008, 8:09 pm

Slimppu wrote:

We have evolution.
Lastly, you claim that lies don't sell. Then how come Lord of the Rings, which is entirely fiction, is one of the best selling books in the world?

Thats different. That is proven false. People enjoy reading those books because they know that it isn't true. People don't like "history".

The Bible is completly different. I believe that alot of it isn't true, but I believe that there was a Jesus who did preach and teach about God. I can't really bring myself to believe that he preformed all of those miracles, though.

Think about it though. I may be going a too deep here, but so we go. I think that there is no way that there isn't a God. I mean, have you ever seen the show, "Earth"? I believe that NG played some part in it, and if you havn't seen it, go look it up. If you look at the footage of the landscapes and scenery, it can't be a coincidence that everything in our world works together to amazingly. Also, look at the human body. The structure of every system is just pure genius. Coincidence? I think not. Someone must be out there.

Now explaining the Bible: I believe that God told humans to write the Bible. Wheather or not it is true, it provides moral and demonstrates Gods love.

God does exist.