Is there a god? <dramatic music>

ryan1 · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 9:34 am

^ I'm not saying here specifically, but just in general. Athiests seem to want to attack and get into an arguement with believers.

Adbot · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 9:34 am

Kyle · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 9:35 am

Kill3rz wrote:

Kyle wrote:

I believe in a god, or a force created the universe. But who am i to say that Buddhism or Muslims gods are wrong....to many gods.

Quick fact: Muslims and Christians actually worship the same god.

Way to go, completely miss my point. And please dont tell me facts...

Anubis · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 9:41 am

Brad wrote:

ryan1 wrote:

Anubis wrote:

I believe in a God.
I'm not even going to try to explain why.

Sorry, this sort of topic just doesn't work on RSBandB. People who believe just get insulted.

Yes, I am fine with people who don't believe in God. That is their choice. But I don't want to get insulted because I do. What's so wrong with believing in God and Christianity? Even if it is all fake, what is so bad about preaching that everyone should be nice to each other?

Nobody on this thread so far has 'insulted' anybody who believes in god. If anybody did they'd get punished. We're trying to give intelligent debate on a very controversial issue a chance here, and you're just saying it can't happen.

Actually, we've already been called "delusional".

Yay.
What I meant was, in the past that is all that is said;
"People who believe in God are delusional."

No, it can't happen. You'll always offend someone with whatever you say. It's not always a fault of anyone either. Governments don't even touch this issue for the same reason.

"Christians and Muslims worship the same God" is too, going to offend someone. Not me, I think we all worship the same one anyway. But catholics certainly wouldn't like that, neither would Al Quaeda.

EnglishPenguin · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 9:45 am

There are so many arguments as too whether there is a God, or if there isn't, but personally, I don't believe there is one.

Jaden · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 9:47 am

There's nothing to gain by not believing in God. I say if you believe God exists, it will and by believing in God you will get the chance to live an after life, but who even knows there's such a thing called the after life? I really don’t know which end to drift to.

The Killer · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 9:56 am

Afterlife. That's like a whole new topic really.

Hindus believe in reincarnation, Christians believe in Heaven and Hell, some others believe in who knows what.

I myself believe I'll just be having a dream, a really long dream where whatever I want is there, that's about it. Perhaps 'Heaven' works that way too.

Adbot · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 9:56 am

Brad · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 10:13 am

Anubis wrote:

Brad wrote:

ryan1 wrote:

Anubis wrote:

I believe in a God.
I'm not even going to try to explain why.

Sorry, this sort of topic just doesn't work on RSBandB. People who believe just get insulted.

Yes, I am fine with people who don't believe in God. That is their choice. But I don't want to get insulted because I do. What's so wrong with believing in God and Christianity? Even if it is all fake, what is so bad about preaching that everyone should be nice to each other?

Nobody on this thread so far has 'insulted' anybody who believes in god. If anybody did they'd get punished. We're trying to give intelligent debate on a very controversial issue a chance here, and you're just saying it can't happen.

Actually, we've already been called "delusional".

Yay.
What I meant was, in the past that is all that is said;
"People who believe in God are delusional."

No, it can't happen. You'll always offend someone with whatever you say. It's not always a fault of anyone either. Governments don't even touch this issue for the same reason.

"Christians and Muslims worship the same God" is too, going to offend someone. Not me, I think we all worship the same one anyway. But catholics certainly wouldn't like that, neither would Al Quaeda.

This is why I gave up debating with religious people, or even talking about their religion to them. While they may be perfectly respectable and normal people when it comes to most things, when it comes to religion, almost anything that goes against what they believe in, they construe as offensive, When 99% of the time it's not meant in that way at all. It's not the fault of the people talking about religion. It's the fault of the person who is taking everything said against their beliefs as a personal insult.

We can't discuss religion because religious people see insults in everything that's said against what they believe, and things soon escalate from there.

Anubis · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 10:18 am

Brad wrote:

This is why I gave up debating with religious people, or even talking about their religion to them. While they may be perfectly respectable and normal people when it comes to most things, when it comes to religion, almost anything that goes against what they believe in, they construe as offensive, When 99% of the time it's not meant in that way at all. It's not the fault of the people talking about religion. It's the fault of the person who is taking everything said against their beliefs as a personal insult.

We can't discuss religion because religious people see insults in everything that's said against what they believe, and things soon escalate from there.

I completely agree. (Ironic, eh? :p) Unfortunately that's just the way it goes. Religious people are generally oversensitive about what they believe in, and those debating/arguing against God generally are bound to what's been written in books. The two just don't mix. :\

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 10:31 am

ryan1 wrote:

Anubis wrote:

I believe in a God.
I'm not even going to try to explain why.

Sorry, this sort of topic just doesn't work on RSBandB. People who believe just get insulted.

Yes, I am fine with people who don't believe in God. That is their choice. But I don't want to get insulted because I do. What's so wrong with believing in God and Christianity? Even if it is all fake, what is so bad about preaching that everyone should be nice to each other?

And as for the origin of the universe, wouldn't it have to be an ultimate being (ie. God)? Sure, the big bang created the universe. Ok, what caused the big bang? A bunch of gas and dust and w/e all getting tightly packed together and super heated and exploding outward (or however the theory goes). Fine. Where did all the gas, dust, ice, etc. come from...?

http://www.thekeyboard.org.uk/The%20Big ... Theory.htm

That explains it, makes more sense to me than some great being somehow making gas appear.

I'll always side with science over fiction, if they can prove themselves to be correct then that's what i'll go with, or at least provid a decent theory - i wont put my faith into something that revolves around one single book that's been changed time and time again.

Weither there is a god or not, things like the bible are not related, that's simply a means of controling people.

MattVortex · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 10:32 am

ryan1 wrote:

And as for the origin of the universe, wouldn't it have to be an ultimate being (ie. God)? Sure, the big bang created the universe. Ok, what caused the big bang? A bunch of gas and dust and w/e all getting tightly packed together and super heated and exploding outward (or however the theory goes). Fine. Where did all the gas, dust, ice, etc. come from...?

First, the argument you are quoting is called the Cosmological Argument, and is flawed because it does not create a solution - what caused God?

Second, Quantum mechanics has proven that something can happen without necessarily having a cause. I know it's illogical.

Third, since the beginning of the universe is also the beginning of time, how can a god have caused time to exist? Cause requires time - without time, nothing can be caused or affected.

Brad wrote:

This is why I gave up debating with religious people, or even talking about their religion to them. While they may be perfectly respectable and normal people when it comes to most things, when it comes to religion, almost anything that goes against what they believe in, they construe as offensive, When 99% of the time it's not meant in that way at all. It's not the fault of the people talking about religion. It's the fault of the person who is taking everything said against their beliefs as a personal insult.

We can't discuss religion because religious people see insults in everything that's said against what they believe, and things soon escalate from there.

That is true. As a result, we give religion too much respect. Time for another quote, this one from Douglas Adams.

Quote:

Religion ... has certain ideas as the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, 'Here is an idea or notion that you're not allowed to say anything bad about; you're just not. Why not? - because you're not!' If someone votes for a party that you don't agree with, you're free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it. But on the other hand if someone says 'I mustnt move a light switch on a Saturday', you say 'I respect that'.

Wy should it be that ir's perfectly legitimate to support the Labour part of the Conservative party, Republicans or Democrats, this model of economics versus that, Macintosh instead of Windows, but to have an opinion about how the Universe began, about who created the Universe ... no, that's holy? ... We are used to not challenging religious ideas but it;s very interesting how much of a furore Richard [Dawkins] creates when he does it! Everybody goes absolutely frantic about it because you're not allowed to say these things. Yet when you look at it rationally there is no reason why those ideas shouldn't be as open to debate as any other, except that we have agreed somehow between us that they shouldnt be.

I have emphasised the important part. And it is for that reason that I will not stop debating because people feel 'offended' by it. Half the time they dont really feel offended anyway, they just feel they have the duty to feel offended because it is their religion. I will not aim to offend, but if I inadvertantly offend anyone, I frankly dont care.

Quote:

Weither there is a god or not, things like the bible are not related, that's simply a means of controling people.

Heh, yeah.

Belief in God can be seen as a bit of a wavy line. But belief in angels and demons and a torturous hell and a messiah walking on water and rising from the dead and all the other things that come with the belief in God (in Christianity, anyway) can be seen as just a bit stupid - belief in God does not entail all those things, it entails nothing. Going back to what Kill3rz said earlier, all those extra things were also created by man as arbritrary things to believe are true. 'All unicorns are pink and hollow!' is analagous to it - no-one has ever seen a unicorn, and therefore someone can make an arbritrary "fact" about it, because no-one can disprove them.

Those of you who do believe in God, do you believe in all the extra things like angels and souls and hell?

Chris · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 12:00 pm

I am honestly undecided on this issue. When I was young I believed in the Christian God because I didn't really think about it, but as I grew older I began to question it. I listen to church things and just question the validity of certain things. I am just not sure, I see flaws in some of the things.

If you really think about it, people believe in religion to know that there is a meaning of life. They want to believe that all life has a purpose. A second reason is that (most) religions will give people morals to live by, praising good morals and damning bad ones. People want to believe in religion so that they can follow their conscience on what is good, and condemn themselves on what is bad. A lot of people don't want to believe that we are just creatures that happen to be living like the rest of the kingdoms of living creatures, they want a reason why we are intelligent and have the ability to think. They also want a reason of how life came to be, how it couldn't have just appeared without some kind of creative force.

Though we have not yet discovered this, unfortunately for them science keeps on discovering certain aspects of life that conflict with religious beliefs and prove them wrong.

Steven · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 6:42 pm

I belive in God.

I am a Cristian.

This topic shouldn't be on RSBandB because people who do belive, could get insuted.(Which I am not, by the way.)

Lance · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 7:25 pm

Here are my thoughts. What will happen when I die? Is there hell? Will I become someone else? Will I be put in the hell like the one in No Exit? Or am I dead wrong and am I going to be picked up by a Soul Reaper like in Bleach (one curve ball?). Then Again will I just sit there? Or will I just be a ghost? I think that pending on what you believe in affects your choices. However I am not saying that atheists are gonna do nothing because you could believe in ghosts or plain reincarnation that dosen't have to do with god.

However if there is a god maybe he goes by all different names and we are all praying to the same divine source? maybe there is a god for each religion waiting up there? What happens if I find out that Buddha is the real god? All I would say is ok so I was wrong. I only have one hope after I die and that's to be with my wife and kids after they die and Join me. (By the way I am a Cristian but I still ask myself these questions).

The Killer · **Posted:** May 27th, 2007, 7:58 pm

Chris wrote:

A second reason is that (most) religions will give people morals to live by, praising good morals and damning bad ones. People want to believe in religion so that they can follow their conscience on what is good, and condemn themselves on what is bad.

I have to agree there. The Muslim religion mostly forbids alcohol and pork. Alcohol probably because of hangovers and stuff like that, pork probably because it's fatty or dirty(mud) or something like that.

I remember my mother constantly telling me, "Wash your hands before you eat, or Satan will devour the food before it reaches the stomach!", and stuff like that.

That's part of why I think Man created God, because Man wants the people to be hygienic, clean, and healthy, so they made up stories of people who don't follow what their holy book says.

The Haysta · **Posted:** May 28th, 2007, 4:37 am

Muslims don't eat pig because it is considered dirty, due to the fact pigs will eat anything, I think...