The Solution - Stop the Ban.

MattVortex · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 1:20 am

Many of you will have heard about Duke Freedom. Particularly popular on RuneScape Community and Tip.it, he was a great player, who would always endeavour to help others. He has helped the entire RuneScape community in many ways, particularly in his expert market analysis. He was regarded as one of the richesnt players in RuneScape, or at least the player with the greatest net worth, with party hats and santas and halloween masks to his name, as well as a rather impressive skill total. He was also a Player Moderator, so not only was he helping those who play runescape, but those who make it.

A few months ago, Duke decided he'd risk his account and sell some of his money for real-life cash. He was caught, and banned, no ban appeals allowed. Hundreds of players Runescape-wide asked the question, Is this fair?

Hell no.

And there have been other cases of this, as well. People with impressive skill totals, millions of gp, party hats, santas, masks, christmas crackers, banned, because they jokingly said "noob" to a friend, or because they made a joke about ashes being worth 100k or something.

This banning has to stop. Now.

Im going to make an analogy. Its from a post i made in this thread

Imagine a crowd of people moving along a roadway. This great crowd of people want to move out in different directions to the road is going, these different directions being them breaking the rules. There are two possible solutions to this problem.

Either, put great fires on either side of the road, and so all those who wander out will quickly be burnt to a crisp. Or, you can put shepherds on either side of the road, so that anyone found wandering off the path can be gently moved back onto the path.

Everyone wanders off the path at some time, risking the flames. Some dont get burnt by the flames, some do. No-one deserves the flames, really. They should be put back on the path.

With the chat censor, jagex have put some walls next to the path to try and stop people from breaking rule 1. But these are bad walls. They are walls that narrow the path and annoy the sh*t out of people, and people want to break out of them.

The solution is simple:

Dont ban anyone, ever. Yes, you heard me. Ever. (And remove the censor, too, except for racist comments)

Banning people makes Jagex look like idiots. Banning great players, who have helped so many people, or who have been working on their accounts for years. Its just not fair.

So what is the solution to this problem?

Each and every Runescape player has three basic rights within the game:

1. The ability to talk to other players of runescape.
2. The ability to trade with other players, because the prices in general stores suck.
3. The right to appear on the hiscores, so everyone can see how good they are as a runescape player.

These rights, however, can be removed to stop people from breaking the rules. 99% of macroers do it for the money. Remove their right to trade with other players, and *pop*, 99% of macroers are gone.

Lets have a look at each individual rule on its own.

1. Offensive Language - i dont mean the swearing. This is the internet, people are going to swear, get used to it. I mean racist remarks, or comments against one group of people or something. The solution to this one is simple. Mute them. Mute them, and they will never be able to make that racist remark ever again.

2. Item Scamming - The solution to this one is simple. Stop them from trading, and if necessary from talking as well.

3. Password Scamming - To be honest to be a victim of this one you have to be horribly gullible. But for those who do it, mute them.

4. Bug Abuse - This one is difficult to place, because of the different natures of the bugs. If its a bug that allows you to have lots of money, trade-block. Other bugs would have other rules.

5. Jagex Staff Impersonation - As with 3, to be a victim of this, you have to be an idiot. But mute the offender.

6. Account Sharing/Trading - I think with this one, those found doing it should be trade-blocked, and the accound itself that is being traded should be muted, trade-blocked, and removed from hiscores. With account sharing, you simply trade-block it.

7. Macroing - 99% of macroing is for the money, so, trade-block. The other 1% or so who actually do it for the levels, remove from hiscores.

8. Multiple Logging In - This was a difficult one to place, but I would say the simple solution is to do a triple-block (chat, trade, and hiscores) on the account with the lowest skill total.

9. Encouraging others to break rules - Mute. They will never be able to do it again with a mute.

10. False Representations - This one is the misuse of the report abuse or the customer service, and the simple answer is that if anyone does, stop them from using the customer service or the report abuse button.

11. Advertising - Mute. Simple.

12. Real World Item Trading - Trade-block for a couple of months should get the message accross. Im sure if Duke Freedom had been trade-blocked for a month, he would have learnt his lesson.

13. Asking for personal details - Mute. But people shouldnt give out the personal details anyway.

14. Misuse of official forums - Stop them using them, duh.

15. Advert Blocking - So many people block the ads from the F2P Game, and not just those ads, also any other ad, with Firefox's adblock, or a little Opera hack which can be seen here. Who cares if they block the ads, they're annoying. The runescape ads might be better if they actually had some interest to the players. Put something up there about website hosting or whatever, and you might get a few hits. Put something up there about Girls who dont like science (yes, i have had that), and you're not.

So there we go. That is my solution to all the rules, if they are broken. Jagex seem to like banning people, and are making themselves look more and more stupid. Simply do these things, and it may solve all the problems.

Adbot · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 1:20 am

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 1:51 am

No?

I know who the guy was, i know why he got banned and he deserved it.

He was the richest guy in rs, now if he was willing to sell items - whos to say he wasn't willing to BUY them as well? He lost all my respect for what he'd acheived the moment he sold items, makes him untrusty and he got what he deserved.

People deserve to be banned, taking away there highscores ranks because they auto? Lmao, they just auto for money, not for ranks.

Your ideas don't and wont work. Banning is affective all t here hard work goes down the drain and so it should. Make room for the dedicated hard working players like myself.

MattVortex · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 2:08 am

I did say 99% of macroers do it for the money, creepy. I have heard of one or two who do it for the ranks.

Do you agree with banning someone for jokingly saying "noob" to a friend, though, creepy? People have been.

Stopping Duke from trading will have stopped him from being able to sell or buy his stuff. Duke still has respect with me, for being the helpful player he is. He still does regular reports on the RuneScape economy in the Tip.it times, as well as writing articles and stuff for RSC and Tip.it. The day Duke was banned it was Jagex who lost their respect with me, not Duke.

Banning people is not the solution. These people should still be allowed to play the game, whether they macro or trade or what. They should just be restricted somewhat so there is either no incentive to break the rules, or they cant break the rules.

Imagine the situation, creepy. You're playing RuneScape. A common noob comes up to you and keeps asking to trade, flooding you with trade requests, saying "fr33 st00f pl0x". In your anger, you call him a noob, just jokingly, but said noob takes it personally. He reports you. *Pop* And you get a permaban. Do you think that is right?

The Haysta · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 2:27 am

Vortex you are a Genius. We still need to having banning though, there are occasional cases where people will continue to break the rules.

If a dog starts biting people, but a muzzle on it. Take it off after awhile and see if he has learned his lesson. If he has then let him be free, if he hasnt put it back on, until he has learned his lesson.

Although the one thing that really irritates me is that you cant let other go on your account. I admit, I have let other people use my account occasionaly, most recently just to show my house to a friend in real life who didnt have members at that time and was curious. Temporary muting would be better, then you cant give out your pass.

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 2:34 am

MasterOfTheVortex wrote:

I did say 99% of macroers do it for the money, creepy. I have heard of one or two who do it for the ranks.

Do you agree with banning someone for jokingly saying "noob" to a friend, though, creepy? People have been.

Stopping Duke from trading will have stopped him from being able to sell or buy his stuff. Duke still has respect with me, for being the helpful player he is. He still does regular reports on the RuneScape economy in the Tip.it times, as well as writing articles and stuff for RSC and Tip.it. The day Duke was banned it was Jagex who lost their respect with me, not Duke.

Banning people is not the solution. These people should still be allowed to play the game, whether they macro or trade or what. They should just be restricted somewhat so there is either no incentive to break the rules, or they cant break the rules.

Imagine the situation, creepy. You're playing RuneScape. A common noob comes up to you and keeps asking to trade, flooding you with trade requests, saying "fr33 st00f pl0x". In your anger, you call him a noob, just jokingly, but said noob takes it personally. He reports you. *Pop* And you get a permaban. Do you think that is right?

I never get angry over that i just switch my trade to friends.

Banning is the solution it works well.

The Haysta · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 2:37 am

2 Years of hard work down the drain for a mis-understanding, i think not.

Adbot · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 2:37 am

Christopher · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 2:39 am

MasterOfTheVortex wrote:

Do you agree with banning someone for jokingly saying "noob" to a friend, though, creepy? People have been.

No, Jagex doesn't ban for saying noob. Look at rule one. Look what it says...if people say they got banned for that they are lieing...they probably said **inser four letter word** noob or something to that effect.

MattVortex · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 4:15 am

The Haysta wrote:

Vortex you are a Genius. We still need to having banning though, there are occasional cases where people will continue to break the rules.

If a dog starts biting people, but a muzzle on it. Take it off after awhile and see if he has learned his lesson. If he has then let him be free, if he hasnt put it back on, until he has learned his lesson.

Maybe there are some situations in which people deserve to be banned, but 99% of the time, they dont. As you said, put a muzzle on the dog. There is no need to kill it. If you take the muzzle off and they havent learnt their lesson, you simply put the muzzle back on.

And again, I agree, punishments should only be temporary, not permanent, unless they keep reoffending. However, it might be an idea to make the temporary punishments longer, for example a 1 month mute, rather than just 3 days or so.

If we look at real life, the whole Criminal Justice system aims more at rehabilitation than other things, and it should be the same in RuneScape. Forget the banning, try and teach people to obey by the rules. You dont give someone a life sentence for stealing a loaf of bread. You give them a small sentence, or a fine, then teach them not to steal again.

I think only events as big as that of Durial, who exploited a bug which allowed him to attack players outside of the wildy, should result in the banning of players, but even then im not so sure. The fact he got the party hat, and a few other things, is the only thing that really says "ban him" to me. If he had exploited the bug, and just killed a couple of people, but not actually caused much damage, then if it were up to me, I would just put a trade-block or a permanent mute on him (or both). It is, after all, Jagex's fault that the bug is there.

Creepy, banning works, yes, but it annoys the sh*t out of everyone in the process.

Rawr Err0r · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 5:48 am

MasterOfTheVortex wrote:

Do you agree with banning someone for jokingly saying "noob" to a friend, though, creepy? People have been.

meesekiller wrote:

No, Jagex doesn't ban for saying noob. Look at rule one. Look what it says...if people say they got banned for that they are lieing...they probably said **inser four letter word** noob or something to that effect.

Little Dan wrote:

...believe me when I say this, that, most of the people who tell you stuff about them getting banned, are liars =).

Meesekiller is right. You can't get banned for saying 'noob', and as Little Dan said, most people LIE about how they got themselves banned.
If someone takes that word as an offense, there's something COMPLETELY wrong with them. It's barely a word. =\
And about the 'No Filter Idea", I think I'd rather have a swarm of kids running around saying 'noob' in RS then people swearing freely at people they don't like.

Zachy · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 6:36 am

Quote:

Dont ban anyone, ever. Yes, you heard me. Ever. (And remove the censor, too, except for racist comments)

Oh God. Please take as little offense as possible, but YOU FLIPPING IDIOT! No bannings? No censors? Do you realize how much flipping CHAOS THAT COULD CAUSE? Are you out of your MIND!? You can't simply NOT ban people. People are out there hacking, autoing, macroing, scamming...and you don't want to ban them because, what, it annoys them!? It ticks them off that they get banned, so you say don't ban them? What the heck? Tell me how that makes sense. And, as if muting them is going to HELP. They'll just think, "who cares?" and continue autoing, or hacking, or macroing, or the like, making millions in the process. What do they care if they can't talk? They're still living the high life.

The second thing you suggested was, NO CENSOR?! You said, I quote, "This is the internet, people are going to swear, get used to it."

*Shakes head* Oh please. Oh FREAKING please. Runescape is a game designed for YOUNGER as well as OLDER players. Just because people WANT to curse the heck out of everyone they see doesn't mean they should be able to. Just think of what the game would be like if there was NO censor. It would be the most unpleasant and unkind game EVER. People would be insulting others left and right. As hard as this is to believe, the censor actually prevents curses, and discourages people from trying to curse. It HELPS. It improves the overall atmosphere of the game, making it much more pleasant.

To say that first of all, no bannings, and second, no censor, you must be OUT OF YOUR MIND. I would LOVE to know how you justify this in your mind. Maybe I'm wrong, and I mis-read a part of your message. Please, do tell.

Sorry if this is considered flaming to anyone. I'm just expressing my opinion. Rather, vehemently, but still, it's my opinion. I'm not trying to flame anyone.

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 7:01 am

The Haysta wrote:

2 Years of hard work down the drain for a mis-understanding, i think not.

'sorry i thought the rule meant we couldn't buy items i thought it was perfectly fine to sell them.'

I see your point. :roll:

MattVortex · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 7:55 am

Gamefreak, did you actually bother reading the part of my post that mentions them not being able to TRADE? Think about that. If they cant trade, they're stuffed, really.

Banning people, as I have said, is not the way to go. You have to restrict their play, yes, but not stop it. If they're autoing and they cant trade, they're stuffed. If they swear but cant speak, they're also stuffed.

Now, to the censor.

I understand your flaming towards me about the censor. But it is very annoying sometimes, and has been getting worse and worse throughout the years. Removing it altogether would mean more people swear for a little while, but it would eventually all go down, and for those people who continuously swear, flooding the chat with swears, mute them. For those who swear every now and again just to emphasise a point, dont.

-

Ok, gamefreak, you have a relatively high skill total, and im sure it took you a while to get there. So imagine the situation. Someone guesses your password correctly, and uses your account for a while, say an hour, but during that hour they break basically every rule there is. They advertise, they tell others to break the rules, they scam items and passwords. Then they log off. You come back to play runescape, you're banned, no chance of ban appeal. Wouldnt it be so much better if you could still play the game, but couldnt speak or trade or appear on hiscores; rather than not being able to play at all. I know, its a pretty rubbish existence, but not as rubbish as if you got a permaban.

This is what my idea is outlining. The idea that people shouldnt be banned because they may be a good, respected player; or because it might not have been them, or because a Jagex staff member has misunderstood a situation. These people still deserve a punishment, because it is likely they did do it, or arent a respected member, but taking away their right to play the game is like wiping out thousands of hours of their lives.

Imagine the situation, you're writing a university thesis, and its getting towards 1200 pages long, near the end, and you decide to jokingly put a swear in it. You're found out. Your thesis is burnt to shreds, deleted off your computer, everything. Just because you jokingly put a swear in it, thousands of hours of work is put down the drain.

Obviously there is quite a split of opinion on this:

The Haysta wrote:

Vortex you are a Genius.

gamefreak318 wrote:

YOU FLIPPING IDIOT

Lisaz · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 8:43 am

i'm 100 procent with you i think people must have a chance to be better

Zachy · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 8:48 am

I agree with you, on some points. On others, I still disagree. If you take away the censor, people will begin to curse profusely. They will NOT slowly stop swearing. Would you think that if someone starts cursing, they will eventually get bored of it and stop? NO. People curse every day, all the time. Cursing will not "wear off". It will be ever-present, and making it EASIER to curse is NOT going to help.

Also, to be restricted to simply training skills and walking around instead of being banned...sounds like a living Hell. I'd rather be banned. You can't speak, or interact with other players. No trading. No buying. No selling. Do you realize this makes the game infinitely harder? I don't know about anyone else, but still being able to play the game wouldn't be worth it if you had to go through THAT.

And, simply out of curiosity, how come you wouldn't be able to send a ban appeal?

Total Plox · **Posted:** July 4th, 2006, 8:56 am

The Haysta wrote:

Although the one thing that really irritates me is that you cant let other go on your account. I admit, I have let other people use my account occasionaly, most recently just to show my house to a friend in real life who didnt have members at that time and was curious. Temporary muting would be better, then you cant give out your pass.

Agree'd. I don't really see whats so bad about oter using your account... I'll use an example similar to yours. My non mem friend wanted to see what PC was like. I know him and real life so why not, I let him use my account while I went on his. Nothing wrong about that.

But the trade-block thing? That's stupid... He gets a 1 month trade-block, so he spends on month on combat training;mining;whatever. The next month, he Real World Trades, gets another 1 month block. I'm not seeing how that helps.