15-Nov-2011 - Breaking Dicing

Mike · **Posted:** November 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm

This wasn't on the front page, but I think it's significant enough to go here given how rampant dicing has become in the game.

Mod Mark wrote:

Breaking Dicing

Today we have taken the step to disable dice in the game. From today they will no longer work, and next week we will remove them all from the game. This was due to the amount of scamming and general “bad use” of these ingame dice items. While we strongly believe that what you do with your treasure is entirely up to you, we have had to step in to deal with this issue.

What do we mean by “bad use” of dice items? Well, gambling for GP was never the intention of the dice. There is no support for PvP gambling within RuneScape and we do not intent to add any. Gambling is a risky pastime and nobody should ever rely on gambling to make money.

Also, there was a high degree of scamming or general bad behaviour when using dice, particularly since the removal of bots a few weeks ago. While we hope that players are “streetwise” enough to recognise a scam, it’s not always the case. Sometimes we have to step in and change the game.
Apologies for not doing something sooner. Since we brought back free trade we really have tried to leave it up to the player to decide what’s right and wrong. But the overwhelming feedback from the forums is that we have to just stop the problem.

Don’t gamble! There are too many people who will try to scam you or alter the odds in their favour. It’s never supported by JAGEX unless it’s about gameplay (like the duel arena). It’s likely that dice scammers will move over to another method of trying to scam you, so please, be vigilant and remember... if it sounds too good to be true, it’s probably a lie.

Just don’t do it.

Mod_mark
RuneScape Lead Designer

EDIT:

A few answers to some common questions:

Dice bags will be deleted totally from the game next week. They will not become rare. Do not buy any, you're likely to lose cash if you do.

We are aware that other things can be used to gamble with in game. We will look at them individually if they become an issue.

No, I do not consider dueling to be the same as dicing.

Adbot · **Posted:** November 15th, 2011, 4:47 pm

Duke Juker · RSBandB Donor since 07/01/2010

Yay. But first...

I only had a problem with dicing in the fact that it was annoying to walk past it and notice. That said, there is no law in life or rule in Runescape against stupidity (aka lack of street smarts). Therefore, it's a moot point that it's being removed from the game.

Yes, it was a scam. Yes, gambling is not a good thing. But at the same time, I'm not going to get in the way of a person's stupidity. The only way you truly learn is through experience. The first time you get scammed is the last time you get scammed (or hopefully it is unless you are stupid).

Anyways, now that my rants over...again, yay. Dicing was quite stupid. Why they couldn't have simply removed it sooner is quite stupid in itself. Of all the fixes that could have been applied to the game, that was probably the simplest and quickest yet.

Wait. One more rant. Mark...you're wrong. Dueling is dicing/gambling (at least that's how it's most often used). The only difference is you can control the outcome to a certain degree. Otherwise, you are still gambling in the truest sense of the word. #-o

Okay. Now I'm done ranting.

Evelyn · **Posted:** November 15th, 2011, 6:25 pm

The only thing I didn't like about dicing was the spam. At least I won't have a chatbox that scrolls faster than the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow.

Ablazin Scar · **Posted:** November 15th, 2011, 7:36 pm

I feel bad for the people who sat at ge and bought them dice bags for 1m. Apparently they didn't know it's like 100gp in Al-Kharid.

Warren · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 12:01 am

Given the nature of the RS combat system, I don't see how staking isn't gambling, or at least in part. And even if you don't want to consider it gambling, then what of boxing staking? How is that not just gambling, period. XD It's just a bunch of rolls on the dice to whoever reaches whatever lifepoints first.

Don't know what you mean by, "Yes, it was a scam" Duke Juker since there were a lot of scammers but there was a lot of legit groups that were easy to find. So in it's entirety it wasn't a scam. But scamming just comes with free trade.

It would be a lot better if there were actual good ways to make money that didn't involve combat that Jagex had implemented, lessening the desire of dicing.

And if Jagex doesn't support gambling, why do they give you the choice of a mystery box for random events. You can have a small amount of xp or items OR double or nothing!! Why not just call them gambling events instead...

Jason · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 2:28 am

All the dicers have found their way around it anyways. They are now using "Magic Skullballs" (Guess where you get them? The same NPC you bought the Dice Bags from?? nah couldn't be... Yeah go figure.) which, similar to dice, can be used to generate a "Yes" or "No" answer. So the dicers have lost their 5% edge with the common 55x2 scheme, but the gambling will continue until this too is removed.

Adbot · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 2:28 am

Mercifull · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 2:38 am

I agree with the removal of dicing but I don't know why they weren't just honest about their removal. I don't believe it was due to it being gambling because there are a lot of other gambling methods in the game, duelling, conquest, rat pits, barbarian assault prizes etc. I also don't really agree with people calling dicing a scam. A lot of the big dicing clans were "legit" in the sense that they always paid out even if the host scammed you. In fact it was MORE profitable NOT to scam because you are more likely to get suckers to play with you if you pay out. Due to the nature of the game the odds are ALWAYS stacked in favour of the host, its not about skill or genuine chance, play the game enough and the player will ALWAYS lose and the host ALWAYS win in the long run. Then it became a business with hosts paying for ranks in established clan chats such as Win all Day and Dragon Dyce. Some people were paying up wards of 400m GP a month for ranks within these chats, that shows how much wealth was moving around the game without anything actually being created. Dicers would stand in one place for hours accumulating wealth while contributing nothing to the game. It was driving the prices of high end weaponry and armour and rares sky high because the hosts needed something to put their wealth into (you can only have 2bn coins). There were also the corrupt pmods muting competing dicing clans so they cannot advertise. It was taking RuneScape to a very dark place.

Then there was the shady nature of owners of the dicing chats. Where do you think all that clan rank fees went? That 2bn cash stack would fill up pretty quick from hoster fees. I don't want to generalise but I think its pretty obvious that most of these people were running it as a rl business and selling that gold on the black market. They claim they are "giving back to the community" by doing drop parties and party hat giveaways but that's just a marketing budget to them to draw more people in to the "game".

Jagex removed dicing because there was too much rule breaking going on behind the scenes and because players should NEVER be the "house" in a casino. The dicing clans have already moved on to other games but the best thing Jagex could do is to simply make all of those Faruk items that generate random things show only to the person who activates it. Then make it a rule that no gambling outside of the proper avenues. If you see a person hosting dicing games then just report them and they should be muted/temp banned etc accordingly.

Duke Juker · RSBandB Donor since 07/01/2010

Depending on your definition, scam can look like a lot of different things. To me in this case, it's taking money through "questionable" means. Gambling is like Mercifull said "Stacked in the hosts favor" and that's the whole idea. You take a chance and maybe you win, but most likely you'll lose. Runescape isn't a game based on gambling or using methods similar to dicing, staking, w/e to get money. The idea is to play the game, not the players. I agree gambling isn't technically a scam in the truest definition perhaps. But it is like a scam and truly not up to the standards of a video game.

Personally, I think they should do something like The Black Hole in Classic. But not for punishing. Have a section of Runescape entirely devoted to scammers. Call it "The Scammer's Wilderness." Whenever you go there, you will be warned that you could love money, life, or limb if you enter this area. In this area, you can gamble, dice, w/e to your hearts content and participate. Call it a darker corner of Runescape. That way, all parties can be happy. Scammers can scam, people can be scammed if they want to be, and people who don't want to see it don't have to. Pretty smart, ya?

addiv · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 2:22 pm

It won't stop a fool and his money from parting in other ways but I'm glad its gone.

Mercifull · **Posted:** November 17th, 2011, 1:55 am

I had a new idea yesterday that instead of breaking dice/skullballs etc, just make them only work in Trouble Brewing. That'll sort out the problem

Warren · **Posted:** November 17th, 2011, 11:48 am

Some clans did dice duel wagers against the host (highest roll wins) where the host didn't take 10% if they lost so it wasn't always a host advantage.

Papero Hawt · **Posted:** November 17th, 2011, 6:30 pm

I don't think this will help anti-gambling in Runescape.

Sxe Ketchup · **Posted:** December 14th, 2011, 8:08 pm

Too bad they didn't remove dicing before i lost a good bit of money lol!

Duke Juker · RSBandB Donor since 07/01/2010

Sxe Ketchup wrote:

Too bad they didn't remove dicing before i lost a good bit of money lol!

Eh. That's just your fault. [-X

hummerwar921 · **Posted:** December 15th, 2011, 5:44 pm

hey guyz come play flowr game... win = your choice of p hat