Members only Hiscores- discuss

Jamandy52 · **Posted:** November 15th, 2011, 10:44 pm

What are your thoughts to the hiscores being members only?

I'm sort of sad because I feel that even those who are free to play deserve to be acknowledged for their achievements.

This also means if you have a 200m and aren't a member you would fall off, but would you get your 'place' back when you returned? or do you drop to the bottom of the 200ms?

Also if the hiscores were to hold the top 2m, and now will be members only, will they hold LESS?

I would also speculate they will change the pages to less than 22 per page, but that's pure speculation.

Thoughts?

I think this goes in the Runescape Forum updates section, which I thought I clicked, sorry. Can this thread be moved there?

Adbot · **Posted:** November 15th, 2011, 10:44 pm

Mercifull · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 2:09 am

It's quite sad really, I understand their desire to keep the scores fresh and up to date but I dont agree that removing f2p entirely is the right thing to do. RuneScape has had highscores for over 10 years!

We also don't know just yet if its just the rankings for p2p being removed and the individual scores will still show. If f2p are being removed entirely then it's going to break a lot of fansites that use calculators or dynamic dignatures. You also wouldn't be able to compare your own stats with a f2p friend.

My feelings are that a compromise should be made where by default the highscores are active p2p only but by logging in you can set a preference to display f2p too.

Ataronchronon · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 7:46 am

The f2p top players are the most hardworking people in the game... And now their work is gonna be invisible. Plus no ranks can now be considered real since there are lots of guys who've got more xp than you but just quit. I really don't like this at all. This probably means I'll lose rank 10 agility, which I fought for for 9 months... Rank 8 or 9 or whatever means nothing to me

Duke Juker · RSBandB Donor since 07/01/2010

Duke Juker wrote:

Well, I won't use the f-word, but I will say I extremely hate you Jagex to the point it makes me sick. The page update is good, but to make hiscores members only? It's like saying "You can't be on the high scores if you don't give us money, even if you are better than most members in your skills." Basically, they keep giving free players the middle finger. Complete and utter crap from the back side of a bull. Why couldn't you just only display hiscores for people who have played in the last 3 months or 6 months rather than just reserving it to members? F2Pers work harder than members to skill and have less to work with meaning it takes more time. I'm glad you pander to the interests of your members, Jagex. I understand getting more bang for your buck and paying for more content, but the hiscores have always been there for anyone. Please pull your heads out of your posteriors and actually use your brains for once.

Rating: -2/5

Basically what you guys said. I agree, this is BS. I didn't even consider the calculator issues that could cause. Perhaps the other thing they could do is have a hiscores showing exp gains for the day, week, month, etc. That would be the "fresher" hiscores list.

addiv · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 3:09 pm

Duke Juker wrote:

F2Pers work harder than members to skill and have less to work with meaning it takes more time.

Jagex is a company, not a charity organization. If F2P players don't want to spend so much time training, they can pay for membership. This has been the business model of the game for a very long time. I pay to have access to better training methods but I've busted my *** to get where I am and have no sympathy for anyone complaining about the difficulties of being F2P. I see nothing wrong with Jagex using this to encourage membership as long as it doesn't give P2P players an unfair advantage, which it doesn't.

Ablazin Scar · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 5:10 pm

addiv wrote:

Duke Juker wrote:

F2Pers work harder than members to skill and have less to work with meaning it takes more time.

Jagex is a company, not a charity organization. If F2P players don't want to spend so much time training, they can pay for membership. This has been the business model of the game for a very long time. I pay to have access to better training methods but I've busted my *** to get where I am and have no sympathy for anyone complaining about the difficulties of being F2P. I see nothing wrong with Jagex using this to encourage membership as long as it doesn't give P2P players an unfair advantage, which it doesn't.

Jagex advertises the game as a FREE TO PLAY game. Sure, it's understandable to have a pay to play version, but F2P people who don't want to pay for a game that they might only get on to do some skills they find fun, and like to be acknowledged for their levels in the skills they do, shouldn't have to pay to do it. All of the F2P skillers won't be happy. They removed bots, lost half their playerbase but it was for a good reason. Now they can most likely say goodbye to another 25% of the players. Time to watch more worlds disappear.

Adbot · **Posted:** November 16th, 2011, 5:10 pm

Duke Juker · RSBandB Donor since 07/01/2010

Im Hard Tbh wrote:

addiv wrote:

Duke Juker wrote:

F2Pers work harder than members to skill and have less to work with meaning it takes more time.

Jagex is a company, not a charity organization. If F2P players don't want to spend so much time training, they can pay for membership. This has been the business model of the game for a very long time. I pay to have access to better training methods but I've busted my *** to get where I am and have no sympathy for anyone complaining about the difficulties of being F2P. I see nothing wrong with Jagex using this to encourage membership as long as it doesn't give P2P players an unfair advantage, which it doesn't.

Jagex advertises the game as a FREE TO PLAY game. Sure, it's understandable to have a pay to play version, but F2P people who don't want to pay for a game that they might only get on to do some skills they find fun, and like to be acknowledged for their levels in the skills they do, shouldn't have to pay to do it. All of the F2P skillers won't be happy. They removed bots, lost half their playerbase but it was for a good reason. Now they can most likely say goodbye to another 25% of the players. Time to watch more worlds disappear.

This isn't about charity, addiv. The hiscores have always been available to everyone. It's just a fricken list. There is NO advantage, benefit, or reason to only allowing members to use the hiscores. Most the skills members have are skills F2Pers use. Same skills, same experience, same levels, same time put in, so what's the difference in allowing only members to see a list of people with their levels and experience and not everyone being able to see? This isn't complaining about difficulties of F2P either. Obviously it's more difficult and yes Jagex makes it easier for members to level and have more content. No one is debating that. But this is a list of hiscores for goodness sake, not content. It's giving preferential treatment to one group based on status (or in this case money) even though it's a basic thing everyone should have access to. How many times can I say it? It's a list, not a quest, skill, item, etc. Like Hard said, it's just going to **** people off unnecessarily.

Here's my response to the petition on the forums to keep it an open feature for all. Link

Duke Juker wrote:

Support.

Here's the issue. This isn't brand new content. This is something that has been in the game and always available to everyone (F2P and P2P alike). There is no solid justification for making it a members only feature for a few reasons. To respond to the statement made by the Runescape Team...

1. If keeping the hiscores fresh is the main reason, there are plenty of ways to do this without making it a members only feature. Why not just make a new hiscores that tracks the recent progress made during the week, month, year, etc.? Better yet, why not make it so that when a player has been inactive for a certain period of time such as 3 months, 6 months, or a year, that their account would be removed from the list. This would solve the problem of keeping the list fresh quite easily. The list won't become fresher just because it's only viewable by members. I'm pretty sure you can't take back or backwards level. The same people are still going to be on the list where they are now (minus the free players, of course, which is the only noticeable change).

2. Do not all players want to compete for hiscore glory? Is that an ambition only available to members?

3. New arrivals to Gielinor include free players, does it not? Or did you mean only new arrivals that are members?

4. How can the hiscores reflect the content available? All it shows is levels, experience, and a name. Or did you mean you want the hiscores to become part of the full range of content only available to members?

My ideal suggestion to accommodate the situation is to have two separate hiscores. Make one for F2Pers and one for members. In this way, each group is being represented and compared among its own peers rather than between each other. This also enables Jagex to still show the difference and full range of content available to members without taking away the right of free players to view a simple list. I mean, it is just a list after all. How's the list so valuable to be members only?

trekkie · **Posted:** November 18th, 2011, 1:01 am

I really don't see any advantage for making the high score only members only.

the only time i even use the high score is when i want to see how i stack up around my friends.

except back when zezima was king, nobody else really cared about the high score.

drndog · **Posted:** November 18th, 2011, 1:41 am

As a nonmember, I am always striving to get my levels on the hiscores because I know that I am at such a disadvantage from being a nonmember, and it makes me feel good about getting on there.

I agree with "Im Hard Tbh" on the basis that Jagex advertises the game as the biggest free MMORPG on the internet, so they should recognize the players who give them that title in some way, and by doing this they are giving them much less recognition.

Evelyn · **Posted:** November 18th, 2011, 10:36 am

If anything they should have two separate highscores, one for P2P and one for F2P.

trekkie · **Posted:** November 18th, 2011, 12:39 pm

i was thinking that too cliff. but maybe after all this backlash they will reconsider. who knows what jagex was thinking. and i also think it's funny how they announce this AFTER runefest. that's like showing off a huge new game and say we're going to cancel the multiplayer.

Warren · **Posted:** November 18th, 2011, 1:11 pm

As Jagex is there to make as much money as possible, not to make a good game, rather a sellable product, I don't see the problem. I don't see why my members money should be spent to benefit and support services for those who do not pay. They have every right to take away features from the freeloaders of RS if it will increase their profit margins. Your ad views pay for servers. Not hiscores. I have no idea why they should care about F2P players as they make absolutely no money from them. Their revenues come from the paying members, and as a member I don't pay so they can pay attention to those who don't.

Wow, I've almost convinced myself by writing that. But I do actually have a problem with it, especially because they go out of their way to make the point that F2P is not a demo, rather a standalone game. And they try to win the best free game award things. Therefore, they are stripping away a service that every other game has and that they have had since the beginning from there game. Not their free game, their standalone game. Also because removing former members from the hiscores as if they never existed.

But to say they are going to loose 25% of their players because of no highscores? Yeah, I highly doubt that. And if you play for the hiscores, you play for the wrong reasons anyway.

On my above bit though, it's interesting to have a "the more money you have the harder you have worked in life therefore the more privileged to a better life you should be" attitude and not like it if one bit of your money pays to help people who actually need it, but in something that doesn't matter (i.e. a game) paying members money should be used to better F2P services.

In actuality I don't care that any of the money I pay goes to running, maintaining, etc. a list that includes people who don't pay anything. I hate that my money goes to stuff like loyalty points and stuff though, things designed for making them money and not bettering the game. Make actual content plz don't give me benefits for being a member for x months in a row. I was a member nearly 3 years in a row, stopping only because you banned me, where are my loyalty points, oh wait I don't have any because you don't get them unless you've signed up for it or something.....

Ablazin Scar · **Posted:** November 18th, 2011, 2:43 pm

Warren wrote:

As Jagex is there to make as much money as possible, not to make a good game, rather a sellable product, I don't see the problem. I don't see why my members money should be spent to benefit and support services for those who do not pay. They have every right to take away features from the freeloaders of RS if it will increase their profit margins. Your ad views pay for servers. Not hiscores. I have no idea why they should care about F2P players as they make absolutely no money from them. Their revenues come from the paying members, and as a member I don't pay so they can pay attention to those who don't.

Wow, I've almost convinced myself by writing that. But I do actually have a problem with it, especially because they go out of their way to make the point that F2P is not a demo, rather a standalone game. And they try to win the best free game award things. Therefore, they are stripping away a service that every other game has and that they have had since the beginning from there game. Not their free game, their standalone game. Also because removing former members from the hiscores as if they never existed.

But to say they are going to loose 25% of their players because of no highscores? Yeah, I highly doubt that. And if you play for the hiscores, you play for the wrong reasons anyway.

On my above bit though, it's interesting to have a "the more money you have the harder you have worked in life therefore the more privileged to a better life you should be" attitude and not like it if one bit of your money pays to help people who actually need it, but in something that doesn't matter (i.e. a game) paying members money should be used to better F2P services.

In actuality I don't care that any of the money I pay goes to running, maintaining, etc. a list that includes people who don't pay anything. I hate that my money goes to stuff like loyalty points and stuff though, things designed for making them money and not bettering the game. Make actual content plz don't give me benefits for being a member for x months in a row. I was a member nearly 3 years in a row, stopping only because you banned me, where are my loyalty points, oh wait I don't have any because you don't get them unless you've signed up for it or something.....

If they get rid of the F2P service/ stop updating it, they won't do near as good. Nobody wants to pay for a game like this before they get to try it out. Dungeons And Dragons Online was a P2P game when it came out, and almost got shut-down because they didn't have enough players. They released a F2P version and is now one of the leading online RPGs.
If Jagex didn't care about F2P, they wouldn't have enough players. THAT many people aren't going to go buy a membership for this.
If Jagex stopped updating F2P altogether, then it would pretty much be a dead game. Seeing as they say it's not a demo, but a standalone game, then they just gave up on it.
People in F2P has to do the same grinding for Xp, and requirements for the few things in F2P to do. They should be acknowledged for their Xp, just like a P2P player. At least do what's been suggested and make a section for F2P and P2P.
Or, set filters for players to use to show some players and not some others.
They said they're doing this to "clean up" the hi-scored? This is not a good way to do it.

Jason B · **Posted:** November 18th, 2011, 3:16 pm

I never use high scores as a member..............

Warren · **Posted:** November 18th, 2011, 4:14 pm

I said it was just hiscores. 1/4 of F2P players are not going to quit just because they are no longer ranked, especially if Jagex isn't coming out and saying, "Honestly we don't care about F2P players, if you want hiscores you better start paying up. You've played long enough to decide whether you want to play or not." It's not like they are removing combat or a bunch of skills from F2P.

But I'm not F2P so I maybe F2Pers do hold lots of value to the hiscores. I know a quarter of the players wouldn't quit if they removed hiscores completely though. Because what I see from a members perspective is people playing the game for it's content, not a list of how you compare to people who play 15/7.