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 Post subject: [Informer Article] An (Over)loaded Question: What if…?
PostPosted: September 29th, 2014, 5:35 pm 
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Like most of you, I've been wandering around our new crystal city in awe of it's beauty and OP training methods. With all the free time between mining Seren rocks and pickpocketing the various clan elves I've had some time to think. My mind filled one night with how to make skills more profitable. Quite a few "what if..." scenarios passed through my head. Then, one with actual merit went from my subconscious and freight trained its way to my primary focus. It was like a Doc Brown light bulb moment where he whips around to Marty. Great Scott - Overloads! No, not that my mind was overloaded (which could have been Doc's problem in those movies, but I digress), the potion - Overloads! Herblore is widely considered a money sink, especially at higher levels, but when you really think about it the skill is actually a resource sink. The entire extreme line of potions are untradeable, and a large majority of master botanists in the game have stacks of extra potions that have a slew of herbs and secondaries locked away in an unsellable form. At the moment, Herblore is kind of nice as it is because it makes it worth training. There's no other way to boost your levels unless you get off your bunsen burner and get mixing. But as the Rune Goldberg update has tried to do for runes, we too need something to flush these unused resources out of banks that will both help the skiller while creating a precious tradable resource. There's really only one solution as the skill stands - make overloads tradable

"Woah there, Rickles. Pump your brakes. You're suggesting we make the reward for training Herblore and sinking so much cash into resources so anyone can get it? That totally defeats the purpose!"

I hear ya. Allow me to explain.  It doesn't defeat the purpose. It allows you to transform your hard work and turn it into something highly sought and valuable that other players would pay top dollar for. All the way through level 85+ we are stockpiling extreme potions. We then make something by combining all of these together. While it is very expensive and time consuming process, those who are unable or too lazy to do all the work themselves will pay a great price for the chance to use these. It's a model that has been proven to work already. I have mentioned in previous articles that I love how the Ascension dungeon operates. You take keystones that alone are valuable, turn them into signets that have no value, and then, and only then, when you have all of those pieces you combine them all to make an Ascension crossbow, something that is extremely valuable. Overloads work the same way - take your resources, create potions that are untradeable, but then combine them all in order to create a potion that is amazing and could be very valuable. It's a proven principle that would work the same way only for a skill.

"But overloads are supposed to be a reward!"

I know, and they still will be. After all, you get to be able to make them and not have to buy them and in turn you get to sell them. A high level way to make money in a skill is exactly the kind of reward that makes people want to train something. It will also push those who can't make them yet to train Herblore if only to unlock the resources and make some money back. I can't imagine making overloads tradable will devalue the reward or make people not want to train Herblore, in fact I'd say it would do the opposite. Plus, due to the costs of the resources to make them it will keep prices high while correcting prices for the herbs, particularly torstols, which aren't near the price when overloads first were released.

We're already talking money, so let's talk prices. Runewiki has broken down the prices of all the resources to make overloads to be 76k. While you can surely farm all the herbs and secondaries (boosting the value of two skills at the same time) you would increase your profit quite nicely. That would make overloads somewhere around 80K for 3 doses. While it seems expensive, for such a massive boost for 15 minutes would be worth it to someone who can't make extremes. Can't beat Nomad? Want to shorten kills in GWD? Want to save spaces of all the other potions you'd need down to just one slot? How much is it worth to you? How much is it worth to someone who can't make potions and just PvMs? Think about if they made these usable in PvP again. Is such a mighty boost worth the cost to a PKer? I would say absolutely. For a pricetag of 250k for an hour's worth of wrecking it would be worth it. Consider the other areas of the game that would benefit as well. Herb prices, demand for secondary items (like Grenwall spikes, potato cacti, and Zammy wine), prices and use of Sara brews - all would skyrocket. And all those torstol drops would finally be put to good use and PvMers could sell them back to the potion makers. Aw, the circle of life - it moves us all.

So would it be a great idea? I think so. Of course, there's no telling how many overloads are out there not being used and how much demand there really would be. Would the price really be reliable with so many ingredients being able to be fluctuated in the market? It may be too late to initiate such a change, but I do still believe it could be beneficial and really the only way to make Herblore profitable. What do you guys think? Sound off and let me know your thoughts!

This was originally posted as an Informer Runescape article.


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PostPosted: September 29th, 2014, 5:35 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: [Informer Article] An (Over)loaded Question: What if…?
PostPosted: September 29th, 2014, 5:45 pm 
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Pardon the quick reply after posting it for you.

But I have a simple response: no.

The PvM community which would love this has a tendency to just focus on PvM most of the time. Having overloads and extremes untradeable means those that want the benefits actually need to train Herblore. Removing the limitation means that they can just hop over to the GE and load up on the potions that I and many others put millions into being able to make. That's not right, I like the system how it is now. Also the more people that flood the market with overloads would result in them losing value over years (consider a super set today vs. back in 2004).

Sure I could make a lot of money off this but I am willing to take a principled stance at the expense of potential profit.

A middle ground I could be happy with: You need a Herblore levels 5 below the extreme potion or overload (91 for overload) in order to be able to consume it. You can still buy it on the GE whenever you want but if you don't have the right level it hurts you rather than increasing your stats.

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 Post subject: Re: [Informer Article] An (Over)loaded Question: What if…?
PostPosted: October 2nd, 2014, 6:58 am 
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For myself, I love this idea. The idea that extremes remain untradeable and only the overloads as the end result be sold is something I really like. I also do agree with Shane that long term it may not be good, but we would be talking years into the future, and hopefully by then, there would be advancements in other areas of herblore. I had the advantage of not dropping a ton of money into this skill by farming the potions and collecting the secondaries myself, and I don't really understand players that want to just buy a skill all the way to 99. Perhaps another solution would be to have a preset price on them so that they don't lose value over time. Maybe we could sell them to an NPC and players could only buy from him if stock has been sold to him. This could see the price remain constant and stop the item being devalued.
Another great article, Rickles, and one that hopefully leads to a good discussion of pros and cons here :)

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 Post subject: Re: [Informer Article] An (Over)loaded Question: What if…?
PostPosted: October 3rd, 2014, 6:41 pm 
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Quote:
I don't really understand players that want to just buy a skill all the way to 99.


Because in this fully commercialized game, excluding a few things like Overloads, making money and spending it to train a skill is astronomically faster than doing it the slow/DIY way. Either that or skills are completely AFK anyway, like woodcutting ivy or spanning for runecrafting xp.

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 Post subject: Re: [Informer Article] An (Over)loaded Question: What if…?
PostPosted: October 4th, 2014, 1:08 am 
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I agree with you, Rickles. I hear what Shane says as well. Here's my two cents on the matter.

Frankly, I think it's great that there is a special reward for players at a high level to use unique items that no one but themselves can use. That should be apart of every skill in some way shape or form. However, given the dynamics of Herblore and the essential resource "waste" it causes, these resources shouldn't be locked up and kept from being shared with the general community. We don't see food treated in this matter (not off the top of my head anyway). We don't see special armor and weapons that can only be used by players (except for very few examples and even those are limited to quest items and non-end game items).

If I were to change your suggestion to accommodate both sides (as I see merit in both views), it would be to allow extremes to become a tradeable item, but replace them with something else that remains unique to high level players...something that isn't easy to make, you can't stockpile it, but it has a high reward associated with acquiring it. What does this solve? The main problem with extremes is that they are simply too easy to make. Unique items should be something relatively difficult to create. In addition, you shouldn't be able to stockpile a lot of them, only allowed to make them when you need them.

Anyways, good article, Rickles. I think little things like this are something Jagex needs to look into. Tweaking the little things leads to better overall game play for the entire community.

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 Post subject: Re: [Informer Article] An (Over)loaded Question: What if…?
PostPosted: October 4th, 2014, 5:02 am 
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Hmm, capping the amount of an item you can store in the bank, along with making it convoluted/difficult to quickly mass produce more. THAT is an interesting idea, thank you, will keep that in mind...

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PostPosted: October 4th, 2014, 5:02 am 
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