DUNGEONEERING and why it's crap

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** March 8th, 2011, 10:32 am

If they can do the grand exchange then they can do matchmaking. Every other online game these days can manage it. I'd rather they dedicate man power to fixing there skill than making another quest.

Also you'd not bring as much to a team as me. If i had to pick I'd pick me everytime. The fact you have 70 odd att/str means your going to mage/range. Which is already going to slow me down because you'll be making runes/arrows. And i get the feeling your the type that runs around making armour for yourself. I hate that. Then you bring very little skill wise compared to an account like mine anyway.

I'd always pick the guy who can open the most doors and has the combat lvls to take down monsters fast and easily. It's simple common sense. The only plus point you have is you've got 99 hits. It's not elitism. It's called i have to depend on other people for my exp. So I'm going to select the best player who brings the most qualities to the table.

Is he going to be an ******* and quit? Who knows. I can't judge a persons personality till there in there the only thing i can gaurentee is if hes not a ****** he'll be a valuble team member.

Adbot · **Posted:** March 8th, 2011, 10:32 am

ChrisT · **Posted:** March 8th, 2011, 1:12 pm

CreepyPirate wrote:

If they can do the grand exchange then they can do matchmaking. Every other online game these days can manage it. I'd rather they dedicate man power to fixing there skill than making another quest.

Also you'd not bring as much to a team as me. If i had to pick I'd pick me everytime. The fact you have 70 odd att/str means your going to mage/range. Which is already going to slow me down because you'll be making runes/arrows. And i get the feeling your the type that runs around making armour for yourself. I hate that. Then you bring very little skill wise compared to an account like mine anyway.

I'd always pick the guy who can open the most doors and has the combat lvls to take down monsters fast and easily. It's simple common sense. The only plus point you have is you've got 99 hits. It's not elitism. It's called i have to depend on other people for my exp. So I'm going to select the best player who brings the most qualities to the table.

Is he going to be an ******* and quit? Who knows. I can't judge a persons personality till there in there the only thing i can gaurentee is if hes not a ****** he'll be a valuble team member.

ive never had to make arrows...ive got 120 tier 11 arrows p++ and that is enough to last the entire dungeon. along with a ssh hood that makes me invisible to humanoids..

im usually the one opening doors for everyone and pretty much going suicidal 2-3 times just to get doors open and help out the team. Im never at the back of the team slowing everyone down. Im the one either in the middle (that is if people are food hogs and dont share the food), or tanking up front.

You are being elitist btw.. everything you've said is about getting the greatest level'ed people you can. And that doesnt matter all the time.

Ben · **Posted:** March 8th, 2011, 6:47 pm

I agree with everything here.

Plus, I'd like to add that there shouldn't be a penalty for dungeoneering with low leveled friends. I shouldn't be getting a 90% experience penalty for helping some lower leveled players out.

ChrisT · **Posted:** March 8th, 2011, 8:44 pm

Ben wrote:

I agree with everything here.

Plus, I'd like to add that there shouldn't be a penalty for dungeoneering with low leveled friends. I shouldn't be getting a 90% experience penalty for helping some lower leveled players out.

ive...never gotten a penalty for helping lower levels out. you get the xp that you deserve.

experience = points for rooms cleared (monsters and rooms opened) + a percentage for how large the dungeon is and the complexity - a % off for the times you die (mostly 15?% per death) times your prestige

(this isnt anywhere near the right calculation but u get the idea)..

unless your doing a lower complexity/smaller dungeon than your used to then it should be the same

Blue October · **Posted:** March 8th, 2011, 9:49 pm

They should definitly give more XP for soloing, the part about wanting higher level is an easy fix, just start your own party and invite only people you deem "worthy" to train with you. There is no penalty for training with lower leveled people.

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 4:57 am

CreepyPirate wrote:

If they can do the grand exchange then they can do matchmaking. Every other online game these days can manage it. I'd rather they dedicate man power to fixing there skill than making another quest.

Also you'd not bring as much to a team as me. If i had to pick I'd pick me everytime. The fact you have 70 odd att/str means your going to mage/range. Which is already going to slow me down because you'll be making runes/arrows. And i get the feeling your the type that runs around making armour for yourself. I hate that. Then you bring very little skill wise compared to an account like mine anyway.

I'd always pick the guy who can open the most doors and has the combat lvls to take down monsters fast and easily. It's simple common sense. The only plus point you have is you've got 99 hits. It's not elitism. It's called i have to depend on other people for my exp. So I'm going to select the best player who brings the most qualities to the table.

Is he going to be an ******* and quit? Who knows. I can't judge a persons personality till there in there the only thing i can gaurentee is if hes not a ****** he'll be a valuble team member.

I'll say this once more. And only once more. If you choose to ignore me and repeat your invalid point again I'll just ignore you. Cause I'm bored of repeating myself.

You wouldn't be first pick on my team if i was choosing. I'd look at your combat level. Think oh hes too low and move on. Your personality, what you would or would not do be that suiciding into rooms or healing other team members wouldn't come into it. I'm not holding interviews for team mates I'm selecting them on the only thing i can possibly judge them on quickly and effectively and that's combat level.

I'm trying to reduce the amount of useless tards i get in a group and the fact of the matter is if someones red to me there of more use than someone whos green. The only time I'd select someone lower is if i was bored of waiting and not finding anyone better. Then and ONLY then i might take a chance.

Adbot · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 4:57 am

Blue October · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 6:24 am

Lol you are actually missing the point, calling people who are below your level "useless tards" proves this. Which all goes back to elitism. If you want to be in a party with people of similar levels, fine, but don't base someones usefulness on the color of their name. Besides by your way of thinking, people who are red to you would not want to dng with you since you would be green to them.

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 7:35 am

Blue October wrote:

Lol you are actually missing the point, calling people who are below your level "useless tards" proves this. Which all goes back to elitism. If you want to be in a party with people of similar levels, fine, but don't base someones usefulness on the color of their name. Besides by your way of thinking, people who are red to you would not want to dng with you since you would be green to them.

Blimey! This disease, disability, whatever you want to call it is spreading. First Chris now you. Your proving my exact point.

At no point did i call low levels useless tards. If anything i was calling the RS population useless tards.

I do not understand why you come on a forum, half read messages and then post a response. Go back and actually read it. In full. Don't skip past bits and put words in my mouth.

And your right! People who are red to me more often than not don't want to dungeoneer with me. I see plenty of people asking for 130+ and i don't bother them. Fair enough! They want people who can do the job and don't think i can. There completely wrong I'd bring a lot to the table. But there like me they filter people through the only thing they have access to - the combat level.

Blue October · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 9:07 am

I did read the entire thing first of all, no skimming or whatever. You did say that when selecting you're team you focus on combat level (only thing to judge by) and immediately after said,"I'm trying to reduce the amount of useless tards i get in a group and the fact of the matter is if someones red to me there of more use than someone whos green." I apologize if this lead me to the wrong conclusion. No I do not have a "disease" or a "disability", I am simply stating my opinion. But I appreciate you agreeing with me in your last paragraph, lower leveled people can bring something to the table, like you can bring something to the table with the 130+ people

Warren · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 10:24 am

Uhm, lower levels are going to bring down your experience rate and thats actually how it happens so it doesn't matter what else they do, they bring down your experience rate. A pure non-combat skiller is maybe more useful than someone leeching, but is useless in terms of why you team up with randoms anyways- the better xp rate. Jagex can't make a skill where the experience is 97% based on your combat performance and then say hey lets throw in some bad opportunities for skillers so that they can justify that they have something to contribute. You select a 5:5 dungeon and you are generating everything including the monsters for 5 people and if one is going to do nothing in terms of clearing the dungeon and getting to the boss and fighting the boss, it is more of a 4:5.
I'm like 122 and combat wise, I think I bring down everyone on the occult floors so... But yeah it is a combat necessary skill and that's how it was designed... Maybe it is elitist but it's not like it's real life and it's not like you're only there to have fun. You're there to train and to get the best xp rate as possible. It's not like you don't want to associate the lower combat levels, it's that you will get less experience rate if they are in your party... It's not like t is a clan chat that only player mods are allowed in.

For the matchmaking thing taking too much coding... if you know much about coding it'd be good to know because I don't so I'm just assuming what I'm going to say... I really doubt the technical aspect of making a match making system is so complicated that it's impossible and every other game has them so... Maybe there should be a server of just Daoheim though so like there would actually be people to find matches for.

I'm not sure if 4:4s and 3:3 and 2:2 are any good... right now I know if you want to train it you do 5:5 so that's obviously the best but I hear from people that quading trioing and duoing is worse than soloing. So those should be boosted as well because I'm sure everyone could find friends to dg with... but as for finding 5 friends to dg with at the same time, not necessarily always possible.

Oh yeah. I'm only level 77 dg so not that high of a level. Although I was going for 80 but I cannot stand the skill so 77 is where I stand... but of all the 5:5s I've done, there has been only ONE group of randoms that I've enjoyed it with, only one group of people who worked well together, only one group that got along in the entirety. And I'm pretty sure I am very lucky to have had one good experience. In fact, I was very surprised at the end how well it went that I was sure it was just a fluke which is probably what it was.
Oh yeah earlier I said I didn't mind finding a match that much but thinking back to october, yeah I definetly don't like it. Nothing I like more than standing for 20 minutes in a crowded area looking for the floor I need to pop up, and hoping that it will be under the conditions I want (i.e. large) and then trading the person as everyone else pounces on them hoping that they will select me. Or on the other hand hoping that we can even put together 5 people to do the floor before everyone else leaves the party. People always are like "SO HAPPY THE GE EXISTS DID YOU REMEMBER STANDING IN FALLY W2 FOR HOURS TRYING TO BUY OR SELL SOMETHING LOL" I'm sure there's some ge world where you can still do that but if you want to experience that again just train dg XD.

ChrisT · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 12:23 pm

WARREN thank you for bringing another point up although i will pull the plug on creepy's point first (maybe while bringing that point to the floor)

Creepy.. ive got a question for you. Why even look at a players combat level. This makes no sense when ive seen a ton of higher levels leech dungeons. I know your gonna say something about me not reading your entire post but i did read it. Tbh when i make a group i just yell out "trade for fXX large/small" and accept anyone that wants to go with me. You know why? because it doesnt make a difference on the level you are as to if your going to leech or slow me down. IF a player does slow me down/leave or leech he will go on my ignore list and he wont be coming with me anymore. Ive seen pking 1 defense pures that were more help than anyone. And you know what.. this brings me to my new point

Warren reminded me that lower levels make the dungeon a whole lot easier for the higher levels to mow down. ive had a whole team of 130+'s and then there was that one awesome skill pure that was basically opening all the doors because he had pretty much everything maxed. the boss dead within a couple minutes because he was lower leveled than if we were all 130+'s and that made the dungeon go by so fast. That probbaly was one of my quickest dungeons complete in alittle above 35 minutes.

CreepyPirate · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 12:33 pm

Warren wrote:

Uhm, lower levels are going to bring down your experience rate and thats actually how it happens so it doesn't matter what else they do, they bring down your experience rate. A pure non-combat skiller is maybe more useful than someone leeching, but is useless in terms of why you team up with randoms anyways- the better xp rate. Jagex can't make a skill where the experience is 97% based on your combat performance and then say hey lets throw in some bad opportunities for skillers so that they can justify that they have something to contribute. You select a 5:5 dungeon and you are generating everything including the monsters for 5 people and if one is going to do nothing in terms of clearing the dungeon and getting to the boss and fighting the boss, it is more of a 4:5.
I'm like 122 and combat wise, I think I bring down everyone on the occult floors so... But yeah it is a combat necessary skill and that's how it was designed... Maybe it is elitist but it's not like it's real life and it's not like you're only there to have fun. You're there to train and to get the best xp rate as possible. It's not like you don't want to associate the lower combat levels, it's that you will get less experience rate if they are in your party... It's not like t is a clan chat that only player mods are allowed in.

For the matchmaking thing taking too much coding... if you know much about coding it'd be good to know because I don't so I'm just assuming what I'm going to say... I really doubt the technical aspect of making a match making system is so complicated that it's impossible and every other game has them so... Maybe there should be a server of just Daoheim though so like there would actually be people to find matches for.

I'm not sure if 4:4s and 3:3 and 2:2 are any good... right now I know if you want to train it you do 5:5 so that's obviously the best but I hear from people that quading trioing and duoing is worse than soloing. So those should be boosted as well because I'm sure everyone could find friends to dg with... but as for finding 5 friends to dg with at the same time, not necessarily always possible.

Oh yeah. I'm only level 77 dg so not that high of a level. Although I was going for 80 but I cannot stand the skill so 77 is where I stand... but of all the 5:5s I've done, there has been only ONE group of randoms that I've enjoyed it with, only one group of people who worked well together, only one group that got along in the entirety. And I'm pretty sure I am very lucky to have had one good experience. In fact, I was very surprised at the end how well it went that I was sure it was just a fluke which is probably what it was.
Oh yeah earlier I said I didn't mind finding a match that much but thinking back to october, yeah I definetly don't like it. Nothing I like more than standing for 20 minutes in a crowded area looking for the floor I need to pop up, and hoping that it will be under the conditions I want (i.e. large) and then trading the person as everyone else pounces on them hoping that they will select me. Or on the other hand hoping that we can even put together 5 people to do the floor before everyone else leaves the party. People always are like "SO HAPPY THE GE EXISTS DID YOU REMEMBER STANDING IN FALLY W2 FOR HOURS TRYING TO BUY OR SELL SOMETHING LOL" I'm sure there's some ge world where you can still do that but if you want to experience that again just train dg XD.

Thank you darling. You said it better than any of us could.

Moar proof. Also as further proof. Check there combat levels. All over 125 i think? Floor ocmpleted without any issues from the players just from the crap game design. PROOF.

Warren · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 2:16 pm

Lol turt I thought someone was going to say that, but didn't mention it because:

For that level 3 to not bring down your experience rate, the difficulty of the monsters has to be lowered enough to be the equivalent of one more level 130 (pretending that the other 4 people in the group are lvl 130), and that just doesn't happen. In the end the slightly lowered difficulty does not make up for the loss of the combat performance of the 130. I.e. the lowered difficulty has to be the equivalent to the damage the level 130 would do as well as the damage the 130 would take in addition to 1/5th of the monsters. It doesn't work out to making up for the 130 on the extreme (lvl 3) so even with someone in the middle (lvl 80) who can actually contribute a very little bit, it's not going to work out. Likely the lvl 80 would be worse for a team too because they would take so much damage and run out of food and then just do nothing while everyone clears the rooms because they haven't found an alter yet so they could come back into the action once there is only 1 combat type of monsters left in a room and hit a bunch of 0s.

Anyways in all this complaining of how much the skill sucks are ways to improve it so it doesn't... even if you disagree and think it is the best skill in the game (and think people the opposite of that are idiots lol) do you think the suggestions, if they were implemented, are even going to worsen the skill?

ChrisT · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 3:40 pm

Warren wrote:

.

warren

you forget one thing i mentioned earlier in the mess of the complaining... that level 3 made super melee and super range pots for us.

that along witht he fact that noone had to waste time with making potions for bonus doors except for that lvl 3, and the time saved from not having a whole group have to fish and scavange for materials+ the lower leveled monsters make up for every damage done by someone that is lower leveled..

you guys know how there is a keyer, and a tooler? well another job should be a skiller... someone dedicated to making pots when they are needed and helping the team along..

everyone knows without a keyer the dungeon gets done so slowly because noone knows who has what key.. a if u have a keyer you can set your ring on that one guys inventory and know what he's got

edit:almost forgot your question warren.... all i have to say is if it works: dont fix it -.-

Warren · **Posted:** March 9th, 2011, 4:49 pm

"If it works don't fix it" basically is a saying to get out of doing things because of laziness lol. If it works don't fix it? There would never be improvement to anything. And here's the thing: dungeoneering works poorly. If it works don't fix it? Well yeah if you make it worse but that is basically a saying for people who have no idea what they're doing... which i give jagex more credit than lol. I'm sure 90 range worked. Why did you have to fix it?
RuneScape was not broken before Dungeoneering. Why did they have to fix it............

And I didn't forget that level 3 was making pots... A level 130 should be able to make pots too. If you know what you're doing that adds negligible time to the dungeon. Like I don't understand why if you're gong to assign a guy to do that stuff it has to be level 3 lmfao. The fact yea if they're just going to be doing skill based stuff the entire time and not contributing to finishing the dungeon, yeah that probably should be done by a level 3 but that shouldn't be done at all. If you can't make potions while also clearing, well you should learn how to because it's not that hard.