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 Post subject: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 5th, 2009, 8:33 am 
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Remember, remember the Fifth of November.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJQ_lE6UL1o


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PostPosted: November 5th, 2009, 8:33 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 5th, 2009, 8:58 am 
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Please don't turn something cool into this. Bonfire night>hippy revolution. I hate all this patriotic *******.

Your government is ****. Super so is just about everyone elses. There all ****, it's just some are better at hiding it than others. I've just had to put up with months of a stupid *** election for something i don't care about for a country i don't care about i don't need more of it for the next election which i also wont care about. I barley care about my own countries election. In fact the next one we have i doubt I'll even vote as i think there all **** and I'd prefer to give my vote to a chimp as i feel he'd do a better job.

edit; I so just realized i went into a bit of a ramble there. WHAT I'm trying to say is the 5th of nov is already a holiday. A cool holiday at that. It's all about blowing things up and starting fires. IF you have to hold this thing can you at LEAST start some fires.

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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 8th, 2009, 7:54 pm 
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There is no problem with the government. People vote for who they want to vote for and the contender/party with the majority will win. If there was real discontent as this video attempts to illustrate surely a third alternative would have already appeared and began to gain momentum. This seems to be once again a fringe group overhyping a problem attempting to gain support from the public. If there was a genuine issue we would already be seeing the mechanisms of change.

This Year of Youth project which you seem to be a part of has identified a cause that they feel is important to them. This is something that youth tend to do once they realize they have the power to make changes in a democratic form of government. While it's definitely noble to throw devotion and support to something you feel dearly, there are a few problems.

First and foremost is that even if the project manages to get members nominated, people will not vote for the younger generation. It's purely a matter of fact that youth do not have the experience to occupy seats in high level government. The reason being lack of experience in related issues, a lawyer of 30 years or an economist is a much more sound choice. They're also able to identify with a larger segment of the population as they have been a part of every age group under them. While I agree governments are extensively dominated by lawyers, they also need wider repsentation from groups such as economists and engineers. A government with more people other than lawyers would be a great thing, I just think that economists and engineers are a more viable choice than "youth."

Secondly, even if you were to get a member of congress, governor, or even an aide to one of these reprsentatives elected you would have as much trouble as the current representatives do. The reason that "Change We Can Believe In" has been slow is that campaigning on a promise is a lot easier than actually implementing it on a federal or state level.

In a nutshell, change is a lot harder to implement than creating a campaign based on an idea. The real world happens and can often interfere with these agendae. It's something that comes with maturity, learning that politics is really about choosing the lesser of two evils as large changes are hard to orchestrate.

PS: I believe what Creepy was talking about in regards to the fireworks is a UK holiday only and 5 Nov 2012 is the next full term US election.

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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 8th, 2009, 10:05 pm 
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Shane wrote:
There is no problem with the government. People vote for who they want to vote for and the contender/party with the majority will win. If there was real discontent as this video attempts to illustrate surely a third alternative would have already appeared and began to gain momentum. This seems to be once again a fringe group overhyping a problem attempting to gain support from the public. If there was a genuine issue we would already be seeing the mechanisms of change.

This Year of Youth project which you seem to be a part of has identified a cause that they feel is important to them. This is something that youth tend to do once they realize they have the power to make changes in a democratic form of government. While it's definitely noble to throw devotion and support to something you feel dearly, there are a few problems.

First and foremost is that even if the project manages to get members nominated, people will not vote for the younger generation. It's purely a matter of fact that youth do not have the experience to occupy seats in high level government. The reason being lack of experience in related issues, a lawyer of 30 years or an economist is a much more sound choice. They're also able to identify with a larger segment of the population as they have been a part of every age group under them. While I agree governments are extensively dominated by lawyers, they also need wider repsentation from groups such as economists and engineers. A government with more people other than lawyers would be a great thing, I just think that economists and engineers are a more viable choice than "youth."

Secondly, even if you were to get a member of congress, governor, or even an aide to one of these reprsentatives elected you would have as much trouble as the current representatives do. The reason that "Change We Can Believe In" has been slow is that campaigning on a promise is a lot easier than actually implementing it on a federal or state level.

In a nutshell, change is a lot harder to implement than creating a campaign based on an idea. The real world happens and can often interfere with these agendae. It's something that comes with maturity, learning that politics is really about choosing the lesser of two evils as large changes are hard to orchestrate.

PS: I believe what Creepy was talking about in regards to the fireworks is a UK holiday only and 5 Nov 2012 is the next full term US election.


Shane, it seems as if you have fallen for the trick. You are thinking exactly what the government wants you to think. "No one has complained yet, so there must not be a problem." In fact with your views on this problem are views that keeps the great machine alive.

We need change. Actual real change, not just a quick change from republican to democrat because both of those parties are ran by the same Fat Cats. In order for real change the citizens that haven't already been molded by society, will need to step up.


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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 8th, 2009, 10:47 pm 
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power crazy wrote:
Shane, it seems as if you have fallen for the trick. You are thinking exactly what the government wants you to think. "No one has complained yet, so there must not be a problem." In fact with your views on this problem are views that keeps the great machine alive.

We need change. Actual real change, not just a quick change from republican to democrat because both of those parties are ran by the same Fat Cats. In order for real change the citizens that haven't already been molded by society, will need to step up.


Then do something about it. If you want to change government, get involved. By all means, gather support to the cause and create your own party. The problem with response to government is that too many people talk, and then don't act.

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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 9th, 2009, 7:01 am 
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In countries like the US or Britain the two party system ensures that real "change" is almost never going to happen. I'm not necessarily sure whether I want some revolutionary third party to come in and change everything, I'm not saying I'm a massive proponent of the two party system as it is. I just see it as a case of better the devil you know. How do we know that these revolutionaries will come in and deliver the change they promise? How do we know it will be "better"? How do we know they will even be able to do it? It's certainly not as simple as just waving a magic wand. That's why I oppose people like Ron Paul, apart from the fact he's a backwards pro-life creationist idiot, half the things he wants to do would never be feasible to implement in the current political system. Its all very well saying "we want to do this and this and this and we will change the system and we will make it better". But I think it's not looking at our political system practically enough. Not that we shouldn't strive to improve our politics.. but we should be practical and reasonable about it.

Political campainging is about words, politics is about action, I think many can do the former but much fewer the latter.

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 Post subject: Register and login to get these in-post ads to disappear
PostPosted: November 9th, 2009, 7:01 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 9th, 2009, 7:56 pm 
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Brad wrote:
In countries like the US or Britain the two party system ensures that real "change" is almost never going to happen. I'm not necessarily sure whether I want some revolutionary third party to come in and change everything, I'm not saying I'm a massive proponent of the two party system as it is. I just see it as a case of better the devil you know. How do we know that these revolutionaries will come in and deliver the change they promise? How do we know it will be "better"? How do we know they will even be able to do it? It's certainly not as simple as just waving a magic wand. That's why I oppose people like Ron Paul, apart from the fact he's a backwards pro-life creationist idiot, half the things he wants to do would never be feasible to implement in the current political system. Its all very well saying "we want to do this and this and this and we will change the system and we will make it better". But I think it's not looking at our political system practically enough. Not that we shouldn't strive to improve our politics.. but we should be practical and reasonable about it.

Political campainging is about words, politics is about action, I think many can do the former but much fewer the latter.


I didn't think Britain was a 2 party system. Historically yes, but it's just mainly dominated by the Conservatives and Labour, with the L-D's a distant third. Regardless, there are lots of parties that just got one seat in the last election, all pertaining to the local issues of that constituency (mainly because Britain is such a diverse country). It actually happens a lot less here in Canada where politics has been dominated by dominated by the 3 or 4 widespread federal parties, with the exception of the regional Bloq Québécois (who really shouldn't be a federal party anyway, but that's a topic for another day).

The point is, no matter what the democracy is like in your country, you can always rise up and make a difference in politics if you have the drive to (along with the right tools and a bit of luck).

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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 10th, 2009, 5:32 am 
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Britain is most definetly a two party system in the sense that the Liberal democrats will always be a distant 3rd and are unlikely to ever challenge the top two for a significant share of seats, at least at present. Unless for some reason Labour and the Tories gain an equal number of seats, short of a majority, and then they might come in to play as a coalition partner. And I believe the Lib Dems themselves have said they wouldn't partner either the Tories or Labour in a coalition and would only enter governement when they won a majority - which will never happen. Hasn't been a Liberal (and even that was a different party.. probably closer to Labour than todays Lib dems..) PM since Lloyd George in 1922 and that was a coalition, the Liberals haven't held a majority government for nearly 100 years.

Still, I think starting your own party or running on an independent platform to "change" politics is flawed and doomed from the start. Your best bet would probably be trying to get selected for one of the bigger parties where you have a much better chance at getting elected and trying to evoke change once you're an elected official. Otherwise its all just posturing and even more unlikely to go anywhere. All the "youthful optimism" in the world won't change that.

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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 10th, 2009, 8:41 am 
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what if the world ends on 12/12/12?

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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 11th, 2009, 1:46 am 
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trekkie wrote:
what if the world ends on 12/12/12?


Now now, don't create voter apathy! [-X

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 Post subject: Re: Revolution's Eve - 11/5/2012
PostPosted: November 11th, 2009, 9:26 am 
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