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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 12:41 pm 
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Dan wrote:
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

-Benjamin Franklin


There's a paraphrased variant of that I have seen which is

"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

And basically, that's completely what I believe in. Obviously we need some kind of security - everyone has a right to privacy. But everyone also has the right to free speech and thought, whether it incites religious or racial hatred or anything like this. Freedom of speech is a basic human right, one which should never be violated under any circumstances. Britain are already doing it, and I hate it - people are arrested all the time for the crime of Inciting Religious Hatred or Inciting Racial Hatred. No-one should be censored. No-one should be punished for speaking their mind.

Of course, it's a balance. It's a very careful balance which divides fascism from anarchy. There are some basic things which no-one should ever be allowed to do - murder, rape, etc. But there are some basic freedoms which everyone should always have - freedom of speech, freedom of thought. The whole situation, imo, can be summed up in one phrase, which comes from the Wiccan Rede, a poem of great importance in the neopagan religion of wicca.

An it harm none, do what thou wilt.

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 Post subject: Register and login to get these in-post ads to disappear
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 12:41 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 2:51 pm 
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Robbie wrote:
we all are very secure from potentially hurt feelings.


That's not security, that's being polite.

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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 3:41 pm 
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Well if two people find something funny, and one person finds it offensive, what do you think should happen?


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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 3:47 pm 
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Robbie wrote:
Well if two people find something funny, and one person finds it offensive, what do you think should happen?

This is hardly on topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 3:51 pm 
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That's completely on topic, actually.

Do you value the two people's freedom, or that one person's security.


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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 4:27 pm 
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Robbie wrote:
That's completely on topic, actually.

Do you value the two people's freedom, or that one person's security.

You're not keeping someone secure by making sure that you don't offend them.

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 Post subject: Register and login to get these in-post ads to disappear
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 4:27 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 5:46 pm 
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Robbie is right, Freedom can Collide, or have you forgotten the Mohammed cartoon?

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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 8:39 pm 
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Gontcha wrote:
Robbie is right, Freedom can Collide, or have you forgotten the Mohammed cartoon?

The whole Mohammed crisis relied on the fact that opposition to the printing of the cartoon said that the newspaper staff should not have published it. The masses relying on another institution to keep them "secure" is a valid point. However, Robbie's example of two people finding something funny, but the other one being offended here on RSBANDB isn't valid because we don't have a rule against offending people, we have a rule against verbal abuse and provocation of fights. Since anything can offend anyone, things have to be taken on a case-by-case situation by us.

The government doesn't take things by a case-by-case situation though. If the Danish government chooses to protect freedom of speech over censoring the alleged offensive content, then it's upholding a common human expectation of security in their right to free speech. This isn't (I don't think, at least) what MOTV was asking in his question. I think he was asking more about freedom and security in what is better for a society-- not three individual people.

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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 8:43 pm 
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Mushroom Queen wrote:
I think he was asking more about freedom and security in what is better for a society-- not three individual people.


I used three people as an example to represent society. If a freedom can help many people, but take away the security of a few people, is that a good thing or bad?


Last edited by Mushroom Queen on January 5th, 2008, 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Freedom or security?
PostPosted: January 5th, 2008, 11:38 pm 
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Robbie wrote:
Mushroom Queen wrote:
I think he was asking more about freedom and security in what is better for a society-- not three individual people.


I used three people as an example to represent society. If a freedom can help many people, but take away the security of a few people, is that a good thing or bad?


The people who can not take care of themselves and get offended because they don't have security can use their freedom to do whatever they like, including getting security.

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