Is there a god? <dramatic music>

Say it anyway. The mods are already watching this topic like hawks, and I have already said many things that could easily have offended people who believe in God - Christians in particular. If you can give a reasoned argument, however inflammatory, that leads to God, I would be very surprised. Also, Brad has just said this over msn.



Therefore insulting Atheism or whatever should technically be allowed, but you're not allowed to insult me as a person.

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And you just went and proved my point by using that bible quote. You're using circular reasoning, which is wrong reasoning. It is impossible to prove something with itself, it must be proved with other things. For example, if you have a piece of paper that says 'This paper is hot' on it, you can prove that piece of paper is hot by putting a thermometer against it, but you cannot prove it is hot just by reading the words 'This paper is hot'. Yes, using the bible to show that God exists really is that stupid.

Atheists are simply the people who touched the paper to find that it's cold.

I believe in god as well as being a catholic.

The politically correct term is now BCC. The reason we use it is because it's such a big hassle to think of a correct date for the starting point of the first human that it is easy to stick to the method we have used for the last 2006 years and 6 months. Even if a new year-ing system was produced people would still use the old system. Plus historians don't believe in Jesus because they use the term BC, most use BCC but the ones that still use BC are probably old fashioned or just use it out of haboit. Plus Christ probably did exist.



Most legends have some base in fact, and which man?



Written by men, who did not know of the land beyond their own.



I presume you mean where did men originally come from, Africa.

Quite an interresting question actually, I was looking it up today but haven't gotten everything. I'd say around 2500 years, you must remember noone had calenders for the first thousand years atleast. How old do you think it is, based upon your evolutionary ideas?

And how old is science? or Evolution? When did they begin? According to some of the things you've said you say everything began somewhere, so where di those two begin?

And why did people first appear in Africa? Its not the best vacation spot. (Nope, I won't say Isreal is, because its not.)

And do you really think someone(s) would make up a story so long and so possible to believe in that time frame? Remember, there was no science then, (I'll bet you're gunna say science has always been so ofcourse it was there, aren't you?) no fantasy storys of goblins and dragons.

I bet if you look into roman history you'll find some references to the same things in the Bible.

And do you know how many hundreds of thousands of people know God exists?

And how many books, videos, movies, and games are made from the belief of a God and believeing the Bible is real?

I don't think there's as many about science say that a 'big bang' created everything.

BTW, what created the things that created this 'big bang'?

Around 4-5 billion years, starting as a lump of red-hot rock and magma, and slowly cooling, life forming around 3 billion years ago.



Evolution started basically along with life. Without evolution, we would not see anything more than a load of single-celled organisms, and possibly not even that.

As for science, that started millions of years or ago. Science is the study of things through thought and reasoning, finding patterns and things. When man first chipped two stones together over some dry leaves and made fire, and found that it could be done again and again, he was advancing science. Science didnt necessarily have to start with humans, either. When the dinosaurs found that one kind of leaf tasted nice and another didnt, and that one tasty kind of leaf always tasted nice, that was science.



Well, it isnt certain, but the oldest human fossils ever found were found in Africa somewhere.



In the first century, people were desperate for salvation. There were hundreds of cults and things which people would believe in and follow, all around Rome and the Mediterranean sea. It was possible to believe because anyone would believe anything then. People were idiots.



I'm sure there are. But yet again, the Dan Brown argument applies. In his book Angels and Demons, it says that scientists at CERN, the European Nuclear research centre, have discovered and made antimatter. And, guess what - in real life, scientists at CERN have discovered and made antimatter. But is the rest of the book true? No. It is not. The case is exactly the same with the bible.



I think they are genuinely mistaken, lying, or have been brainwashed. Also, people never 'know' that God exists - they believe he exists. No-one knows whether he exists or not. Sometimes these people blur the line between believing strongly and knowing, but they still only believe, in the end. Those who think they have 'experienced' God in some way, I think are mistaken - hallucinating, desperate for some kind of miracle to happen, or, again, are just lying so much that they end up believing their own lies.



Just because a lot of people believing in something doesnt necessarily make it right. If a million people suddenly believed that they had dragons living in their basements does it make them right? No. They might just be simply wrong.



Sorry what?



I answered that in a previous post. Quantum physics has proven that something can happen without necessarily having a cause.

Ryan, which makes it such an interesting argument.

How can you understand god if you believe in him? I was brought up to believe in god but I'm now a staunch athiest, when I believed in the existance of a god I did not understand him. What's more, you can't say there is no source of the big bang and then say that god doesn't need a source.

Something can happen? Does that mean anything? Or just scientific things?

If it means anything then you're going against yourself. (haven't I heard this before?)

You are saying things can happen or be without an explainable cause. You can't explain what created this thought up 'big bang' without telling me to 'just believe'. And I can't explain God or the Bible to you unless I ask you to have Faith.

Why did I say the 'big bang' was thought up and I didn't say that God or the bible was? Simple. I'm on the 'God and Bible theory' side so ofcourse i'd always say that its real. Your on the 'Science and big bang theory' side so ofcourse you'd always say that the big bang was real.

Sounds like we're both stumped against each other. Neither can prove the other wrong according to your physics.



May I save that quote? Its true.

That brings into the equation the assumption of an afterlife, which is a whole new ball game.