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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 1:07 pm 
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I didn't want to come off as being a bit arrogant, but I just don't like the idea of some people who have never made anything more than secondary school art lesson art work, voting for the best signature out of 4-10 or whatever signatures. With judges, they at least had some experience or artisistic talent. Im not saying any of the members here who weren't judges before don't know anything about art, but to be a good judge you need to know whats good and whats not. Im not saying you were wrong for the choice you made, I can understand the points you are trying to make, but im just expressing my thoughts on it. :)

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PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 1:07 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 1:23 pm 
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Personally, I'm insulted, that you're asking for help now after you signed the death warrant. :roll: I would've been glad to put forward any ideas beforehand, but you have made it sufficiently clear both now and in the past that you do not want anyones help who is not on the staff.

You fix it - or remove it, like I said you would.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 1:36 pm 
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I'm confused.

You say that if we were to gather 10 people to become judges, the judge group would be brought back, but then you say that the staff is behind their decision and SOTW would either stay the same or be deleted?

Just who has more power on this issue, you or the staff? Because I don't want to ask people to become judges if it's all for nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 1:49 pm 
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It was a rhetorical statement. The judges aren't coming back. I believe the point trying to be made was that finding 10 people would be hard while maintaining the number of entries. Along with this it should be well known that any staff hirings are always done by someone already on the staff, it wouldn't be saying much for leadership if we let the community pick people for positions.

There was no death warrant signed. That's only if activity didn't pick up, in recent weeks it's clear that activity is back to normal. What I don't understand is why those with graphical expertise in this topic (Anubis and Slimppu) aren't entering signatures? All that's needed for SOTW to remain is enough entries, so if you're worried about it living, enter some signatures :)

Also, we don't exactly enjoy removing things. Each time we do it's carefully calculated in the respect of how it will effect the community. We don't want to remove anymore components, but if they're not being used and are not able to be resurrected we're left with little choice. There is no witch hunt.

Once again, we're always open to ideas (exception: bringing back judges).

If you don't want to post publicly feel free send a pm.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 2:46 pm 
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Shane wrote:
It was a rhetorical statement. The judges aren't coming back. I believe the point trying to be made was that finding 10 people would be hard while maintaining the number of entries. Along with this it should be well known that any staff hirings are always done by someone already on the staff, it wouldn't be saying much for leadership if we let the community pick people for positions.

Just how many of the ex-judges are entering SOTW? If you were to ask the old judges to come back, I don't see how that would cause any negative effect on the amount of entries.

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What I don't understand is why those with graphical expertise in this topic (Anubis and Slimppu) aren't entering signatures? All that's needed for SOTW to remain is enough entries, so if you're worried about it living, enter some signatures :)

If that's what it takes to bring judges back, then I'll gladly enter every week. But as it happens, judges are never coming back. Or so you say.

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Once again, we're always open to ideas (exception: bringing back judges).

Bringing back judges is the only way to get rid of biased voting and popularity contest, and a way to increase the amount of entries doesn't exist. So, on your terms, nothing can be done.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 3:44 pm 
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Slimppu wrote:
Bringing back judges is the only way to get rid of biased voting and popularity contest, and a way to increase the amount of entries doesn't exist. So, on your terms, nothing can be done.


If that's how you see it, fine, don't complain if we have to remove it due to inactivity. It's not something we want to do but the option is on the table. I also fail to see how SOTW is a "popularity contest." The public voting brings a bigger voter turnout, this is good as not everyone has the same tastes. It also feels good to have SOTW open to public voting because it brings another section of openness and community involvement to the forums. These are two things that we've always wanted to be associated with RSBandB.

In the end this version of SOTW is better as it allows everyone to take part in all aspects of the competition, anyone can enter and anyone can vote. It is this that we had hoped that would bring more activity to SOTW.

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 Post subject: Register and login to get these in-post ads to disappear
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 3:44 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 4:13 pm 
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Shane wrote:
Slimppu wrote:
Bringing back judges is the only way to get rid of biased voting and popularity contest, and a way to increase the amount of entries doesn't exist. So, on your terms, nothing can be done.


If that's how you see it, fine, don't complain if we have to remove it due to inactivity. It's not something we want to do but the option is on the table. I also fail to see how SOTW is a "popularity contest." The public voting brings a bigger voter turnout, this is good as not everyone has the same tastes. It also feels good to have SOTW open to public voting because it brings another section of openness and community involvement to the forums. These are two things that we've always wanted to be associated with RSBandB.

In the end this version of SOTW is better as it allows everyone to take part in all aspects of the competition, anyone can enter and anyone can vote. It is this that we had hoped that would bring more activity to SOTW.

Then how do you see it?

I'm not complaining. If SOTW isn't going to change into a better direction, then go ahead and remove it.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 6:24 pm 
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Popularity Contest isnt only popularity. It can also be 'voting for someone because he's my friend', this kind of situation probably happens alot :

*hmmm i have the choice between the best sig i have ever seen and my best friend's good sig*
*votes for friend*
-LOL YEA BRO I VOTED 4 U IN SOTW LOLOLOLOL
-LOL TY M8, I WILL VOTE FOR YOU TOO THEN

Also, there is probably some people who will vote for someone because of their rank.
HA IM NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR DA STUPID ROON MEMBER, I WILL VOTE FOR THE MOD

There is the 'followers'
*hm there is 10 votes for sig 1, and 6 votes for sig 2. SO I WILL VOTE FOR SIG 1 LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!*

So uh, Yeah thats it.
Plus, Why the heck would you want 10 judges? That's way too much, You dont need the whole population of China. 5-6 should easily do the trick.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 7:22 pm 
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Maiden, while what you say could happen it's fair to say a small amount of people couldn't influence the result. There are enough votes overall to negate any such effect. I assume this is what Slimppu was referring to as the "popularity contest."

We do monitor voting to make sure no one is creating extra accounts to inflate the vote. If anything ever looks fishy we investigate it.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2009, 9:19 pm 
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The entire reason that SOTW is not working for you right now is because of your cynical attitudes. I will freely admit that by allowing the public to vote, the victor may not necessarily deserve their win as much as the next person might; but in a competition entered by any of you, you'd most likely wipe the floor, and for good reason. Make a truly great signature, and popularity contests are irrelevant: signatures that matter are the ones that everyone like, not just those who can specifically appreciate artwork. What is the point in complaining over a few votes off either way?

We are fighting for different causes. I am asking for help in reviving activity in SOTW. I don't care at all how the voting process works as I think it's going extremely well and am proud of the changes we have made.

So if I don't care, why ask for judges? Because I'm sick of the purely groundless lack of cooperation. Suck it in and listen to authority for once.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 24th, 2009, 5:34 am 
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Chief Snake wrote:
So if I don't care, why ask for judges? Because I'm sick of the purely groundless lack of cooperation. Suck it in and listen to authority for once.

You don't like it? Maybe next time you should ask the community first. Maybe then we could avoid unnecessary changes.

But apparently, you, the staff, seem to think that every change you make is a good change. So why are you complaining? You brought this on yourselves.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 24th, 2009, 9:44 pm 
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A diffrent SOTW voting system.

the other 5 forums I use, use this method of voting ( fair way of voting )
not using the poll system, becuase people can just vote them selfs and make multiple account to get more votes.

How it operates:-
first person to get 10-20 votes or most in 1 week via post counts will become winner. people must have over a certain amount of post or time spent on the forums before they can vote or its not counted. this stops people making accounts and just posting for SOTW votings.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 24th, 2009, 10:54 pm 
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death_scyle wrote:

people must have over a certain amount of post or time spent on the forums before they can vote or its not counted.


i agree with this but i also think that people dont make accounts to vote for themselves

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 25th, 2009, 4:26 am 
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Marking22 wrote:
death_scyle wrote:

people must have over a certain amount of post or time spent on the forums before they can vote or its not counted.


i agree with this but i also think that people dont make accounts to vote for themselves


Too complicated to manage, we would need a custom forum mod to do it efficiently. That and we already audit the votes looking for any false accounts created. If there is ever a case in which that is done we take care of it.

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 Post subject: Re: SOTW Comment Thread
PostPosted: June 30th, 2009, 10:39 pm 
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>_>

<_<

CAN WE HAVE A TRIBUTE WEEK FOR SOTW??? Where the entries have to be in honour of MJ, Billy Mays, or Farrah Fawcett. PLEASE OH PLEASE. I promise I'll enter one.

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