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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 28th, 2008, 2:32 pm 
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PhoenixEmpire wrote:
It's just not natural-
Homosexuality is not, at all, in any sort or form, natural to the human and/or animal world. Honestly, anybody who got above 3rd grade science would know that, and if you argue against it than YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!!!!!
Ahem, here's why:
A biologist by the name of Charles Darwin (perhaps you've heard of him) did research in the field of Evolutionary Science. His work lead to the progress of many scientific theories, one of which is the Theory of Natural Selection. It states that only favorable characteristics will move on in an animal race, and those that are not favorable will die out. These characteristics can be anything from color, to speed. Now here is where Homosexuality comes in to play. Homosexuality entails that a Male is attracted to a Male, and Female to Female. If this were to happen, then those couples would not reproduce, quite simply because IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. Now, if that were to happen, then they would not have offspring. And if there are no offspring, then the genes of the parents will not go to the next generation. Thus, homosexuality cannot, in any way, be natural. It would've died out thousands of years ago if it were. This means that it can only be a Psychological affair. If it is psychological, then it is learned. If it is learned, then it can be taught. This means that it is, most definitely, a choice. You can, in fact, choose to be Homosexual. Now, if it is Psychological, then it will certainly be hard to "un-learn" it, but it can be done. Thus, it's not natural. Argument over.
EDIT: sorry, forgot the "how it could be natural"
It could be natural in terms of brain function. A mutation could form in which you process phermones from your *** as the phermones of a different ***. Thus, you are scientifically attracted to the same ***. However, it is a mutation...not natural. That makes sense, but not as to why we should let it happen. It would be like saying people who are addicted to crack have the right to smoke it on the street. After all, addiction is a mental problem and you are born with addictive tendencies. Honestly, a well trained physician could tell you your chances of being an addict. So why not let them do it in public? It's not hurting you, so why bother? Simply because you're against it. The idea of it, and the morality of it. Case and point...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
not natural?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_ori ... n_sexual_orientation
here are the known influences

btw mutations arent unatural you should know this considering you used darwins theory in your arguement.

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PostPosted: December 28th, 2008, 2:32 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 28th, 2008, 7:06 pm 
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tacoguy4 wrote:
PhoenixEmpire wrote:
It's just not natural-
Homosexuality is not, at all, in any sort or form, natural to the human and/or animal world. Honestly, anybody who got above 3rd grade science would know that, and if you argue against it than YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!!!!!
Ahem, here's why:
A biologist by the name of Charles Darwin (perhaps you've heard of him) did research in the field of Evolutionary Science. His work lead to the progress of many scientific theories, one of which is the Theory of Natural Selection. It states that only favorable characteristics will move on in an animal race, and those that are not favorable will die out. These characteristics can be anything from color, to speed. Now here is where Homosexuality comes in to play. Homosexuality entails that a Male is attracted to a Male, and Female to Female. If this were to happen, then those couples would not reproduce, quite simply because IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. Now, if that were to happen, then they would not have offspring. And if there are no offspring, then the genes of the parents will not go to the next generation. Thus, homosexuality cannot, in any way, be natural. It would've died out thousands of years ago if it were. This means that it can only be a Psychological affair. If it is psychological, then it is learned. If it is learned, then it can be taught. This means that it is, most definitely, a choice. You can, in fact, choose to be Homosexual. Now, if it is Psychological, then it will certainly be hard to "un-learn" it, but it can be done. Thus, it's not natural. Argument over.
EDIT: sorry, forgot the "how it could be natural"
It could be natural in terms of brain function. A mutation could form in which you process phermones from your *** as the phermones of a different ***. Thus, you are scientifically attracted to the same ***. However, it is a mutation...not natural. That makes sense, but not as to why we should let it happen. It would be like saying people who are addicted to crack have the right to smoke it on the street. After all, addiction is a mental problem and you are born with addictive tendencies. Honestly, a well trained physician could tell you your chances of being an addict. So why not let them do it in public? It's not hurting you, so why bother? Simply because you're against it. The idea of it, and the morality of it. Case and point...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
not natural?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_ori ... n_sexual_orientation
here are the known influences

btw mutations arent unatural you should know this considering you used darwins theory in your arguement.

And the weak comparisons gush forth.

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This line of reasoning is unsustainable. If seemingly "homosexual" acts among animals are in accordance with animal nature, then parental killing of offspring and intra-species devouring are also in accordance with animal nature. Bringing man into the equation complicates things further. Are we to conclude that filicide and cannibalism are according to human nature?

http://www.narth.com/docs/animalmyth.html

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 28th, 2008, 10:46 pm 
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ok fine that arguement is full of holes #-o i suck at debating. well even if it is unatural why is it wrong?

*edit*i meant to say why do you think its wrong and just because its unatural doesent make it wrong.

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Last edited by tacoguy4 on December 29th, 2008, 12:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 28th, 2008, 11:28 pm 
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it being "unatural" means nothing, driveing a car is unatural but millons of people do it everyday. ( so is flying in a plane, or rideing in a train...)
useing makeup or hair spray is unatural but millons of people do it everyday.
wearing clothes is unatural but if everyone stopped i bet ya wouldnt be so happy about it.

so thats really no arguement.


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This whole "don't force your views on other people" argument is so tiring, Veggie Eater. You know what "views that are forced on people" are called? Laws


even though that wasnt aimed at me...

most laws are set for safty (not all, i know). like speed limits, seat belt laws, anti murder laws etc etc
just being *** isnt hurting anyone or makeing them less safe. so why does it matter? theres tons and tons of *** people, haveing *** ***...and doing *** things but i dont think (i may be wrong...) that just being *** has ever hurt or killed anyone.

not only that, i, like most citizens have no control over laws. **most** laws are not voted on by the public but just set by the governmet.
but most (not all i know...) *** rights laws have been voted on by the public ( IE prop8 ) so it was the public that forced their veiws on gays by voteing on, and setting that/those law(s).


i still dont see how someone could hate a group of people, thats not even hurting that person, enough to take away their rights.
i dis like people who wear pants 5 sizes to big, but even if i was given the chance i wouldnt take away their right to do so.


im not out to pick a fight by posting this, its just my arguement and i thought i would throw it out there.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 10:59 am 
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jointntoday wrote:
i still dont see how someone could hate a group of people, thats not even hurting that person, enough to take away their rights.
i dis like people who wear pants 5 sizes to big, but even if i was given the chance i wouldnt take away their right to do so.


For the hundredth time...WE DO NOT HATE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ***!!! We disagree with what they do and find it wrong. I find it to be antiproductive for society and quite frankly degrading to the human genome. Now, once again...I DO NOT HATE *** PEOPLE! Hell, i'm a musician in Theater and i'm in the Music Combo for a Show Choir. I'm surrounded by *** people. If I hated them I doubt I'd be doing what I'm doing. I'm perfectly fine with the people. I'm simply against the act of being ***. That's what we're arguing about, not the people...the act.


Quote:
it being "unatural" means nothing, driveing a car is unatural but millons of people do it everyday. ( so is flying in a plane, or rideing in a train...)
useing makeup or hair spray is unatural but millons of people do it everyday.
wearing clothes is unatural but if everyone stopped i bet ya wouldnt be so happy about it.

The only thing mentioned that is truly unnatural is the driving of cars. However, that isn't even unnatural either.
-Monkeys in forests swing from vines to travel quicker. So, they use tools found in their environment to travel. We used minerals and coal to create a device that allows for faster travel. We're doing the exact same thing monkeys are. I bet they would use cars, too, if their brain was large enough to find a way to make them.
-Certain species of birds and monkeys (lol, monkeys are about the most advanced species out there...) have been observed putting dirt and mashing berries against themselves to make them appear vibrate and colorful. They used this to appeal to the other ***. Isn't that what make-up is for? People put on make-up to look better, and in the end to attract the other ***? So make-up, too, is natural.
-Wearing clothes is simply a form of shelter. The only function of clothes is to provide cover from wind, rain, and the elements. Over the years we've stylized clothes appeal, once again, to the other ***, but the function remains the same. So now, cloths are natural in two ways. 1) to attract the other ***, and 2) to provide shelter.

Quote:
most laws are set for safty (not all, i know). like speed limits, seat belt laws, anti murder laws etc etc
just being *** isnt hurting anyone or makeing them less safe. so why does it matter? theres tons and tons of *** people, haveing *** ***...and doing *** things but i dont think (i may be wrong...) that just being *** has ever hurt or killed anyone.

not only that, i, like most citizens have no control over laws. **most** laws are not voted on by the public but just set by the governmet.
but most (not all i know...) *** rights laws have been voted on by the public ( IE prop8 ) so it was the public that forced their veiws on gays by voteing on, and setting that/those law(s).

Yes, most laws are made for safety. But what kind of safety? The answer is every kind of safety. Physical safety, economic safety, emotional safety...
Although being *** hasn't physically hurt anyone, I can assure you that emotionally it has caused more pain than most gang bangs or robberies. *** people are "sad" because they can't be MARRIED. However, people like me find it emotionally and psychologically disturbing to see somebody being *** in public. It goes against my nature, and my beliefs. Thus, although they don't physically harm me, they are hurting me in some sense. So, *** rights laws would provide my emotional and psychological safety.

I know you'll probably say "Well, they would also prohibit *** people from feeling emotional security in society. Thus, the laws would be hurting them in the same sense they would be helping you."
Yes, that's true. But *** people are the minority. You will never see a law helping the minority in a situation like this. They will ALWAYS benefit the majority of the nation. Thus, prop8 was right in my eyes. The state shouldn't forget the majority of it's people in trying to please the minority.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 11:15 am 
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I dont support them, but i also dont hate them.
people are allowed to be different, even thou its not always ok.
as long as homosexuals stay away from me, i let them be as well.

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PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 11:15 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 11:17 am 
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would you say your views on homosexuality would be something you can change?

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 11:45 am 
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Both sides of this debate are equally cringeworthy. Which is why I've avoided this topic thus far. But I feel the need to try and interject some reason in to what is fast becoming a cavalcade of bigotry and hate.

If two people are in love. Any two people, forget gender, Should they not have the right to be together? What people do behind closed doors is really nobody elses buisness and the fact that so many of you are so interested in regulating the behaviour of others I find very odd. Since you are the same crowd of people who are mostly barking on about your 'rights' and the sort of people who would freely ***** about the police state and erosion of civil liberties. With your close minded and hateful approach to this subject matter you are making massive hypocrites of yourselves and your view points.

And on to the other side of this topic. I believe that peoples merits as potential parents should be judged by their character, and not their sexual orientation. There are most likely plenty of heterosexual couples who would make worse parents than a *** couple. And vice versa of course. I'm not saying every *** couple has a right to adopt or is suitable as a parent. But their potential as parents should be judged on their actions and character and not their sexuality.

But at the end of the day, you can't debate peoples happiness. Two people being together and even possibly raising children does not harm any of us, far too many people in this day and age are overtly concerned with what others are doing instead of concentrating on their own lives, which is probably why this world is so full of **** ups.

I'm not interested in any debate on this topic. Quote me and try and pick apart my arguments if it tricks you in to feeling big and clever, but I won't respond. Don't think about Pm'ing me either. This topic has eroded my opinions of an awful lot of people on these forums.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 12:02 pm 
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The only thing I really have to say about your post, Brad, is that you're wrong if you think of me as hypocritical in forcing my opinions on others or what not. If somebody did the same to me, I would follow what the government said. I've always thought that Fascism is the safest form of government, and unless all a government's people follow it to the end, then it really isn't a government to be followed.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 1:46 pm 
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I think Brad gave one (if not,the best) of the best answer of the whole topic :P

At my school, there is a *** guy (oh no, not my friend, I will explain why), he uses female gestures,he always have a betty boop bag, he almost talk like a woman,he wear lipstick and stuff like that. I find it quite weird, but it doesnt bother me.

What bothers me is when he talks,in public, about his 'experiences' (like having an orgy with 13 men), uh...that just doesnt...interest me...Or at least...I just...dont give a ****...

So my final opinion is, I dont mind if someone acts,dress and do things like a homosexual, But God, I BEG YOU TO DO NOT TALK ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES!

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 2:40 pm 
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id just like to point out that crossdressing doesent make you ***. they just dont follow the set gender roles when it comes to clothes...

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 3:57 pm 
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Knew someone would say that. He is really homosexual, he brags about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 4:20 pm 
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Brad wrote:
Both sides of this debate are equally cringeworthy. Which is why I've avoided this topic thus far. But I feel the need to try and interject some reason in to what is fast becoming a cavalcade of bigotry and hate.

It's funny to me how people who are pro-gay rights have the sole argument that if you don't support *** marriage, you are hateful and a bigot, despite being presented with decent and reasonable arguments from the other side. Is it the reasoning that if you say such a thing a million times, it'll be seen as true?

Brad wrote:
If two people are in love. Any two people, forget gender, Should they not have the right to be together? What people do behind closed doors is really nobody elses buisness and the fact that so many of you are so interested in regulating the behaviour of others I find very odd.

They do have the right to be together. It's called a civil union and it's all they really need to be entitled to since they do nothing to propagate society through reproduction. As for "regulation of behaviour", all sorts of unnatural behaviour is regulated. You can't walk into a restaurant naked and order dinner, can you? "Well, we're born naked, so we should be allowed to" is probably an excuse for nudists, but that doesn't count it as proper behaviour. That's not a completely equal example, I know, but just because a minority of people want to alter the true definition of what marriage is doesn't mean the rest of us have to sit back and allow it.

Brad wrote:
And on to the other side of this topic. I believe that peoples merits as potential parents should be judged by their character, and not their sexual orientation. There are most likely plenty of heterosexual couples who would make worse parents than a *** couple. And vice versa of course. I'm not saying every *** couple has a right to adopt or is suitable as a parent. But their potential as parents should be judged on their actions and character and not their sexuality.

Common sense, Brad, should tell you that children need both masculine and feminine influence in order to be a well-rounded individual. Assume that there are near-equal instances of bad parenting on both homosexual and heterosexual sides. If that were the case, would you honestly assume that a male child brought up by two men would have the same view of females as one raised by straight parents? I'm not saying the male child would be ***, but would not having a mother make a negative impact on him? Yes, quite bluntly. Children who grow up in families with only one parent have this problem as well and it results in them growing up without the experience that many of their peers were lucky to have.

Brad wrote:
But at the end of the day, you can't debate peoples happiness. Two people being together and even possibly raising children does not harm any of us, far too many people in this day and age are overtly concerned with what others are doing instead of concentrating on their own lives, which is probably why this world is so full of **** ups.

The problem is that you're basing this on the happiness of people. I'm sorry, but countries don't exist for the main purpose of making sure that everyone's happy. Their best efforts to do that are through social services, tax breaks, etc. Marriage is basically a subsidy by the government to encourage a man and a woman to reproduce. The government doesn't grant marriage for "people to be happy". It does it with the expectation that a couple will provide children who will be future works and taxpayers.

Brad wrote:
I'm not interested in any debate on this topic. Quote me and try and pick apart my arguments if it tricks you in to feeling big and clever, but I won't respond. Don't think about Pm'ing me either. This topic has eroded my opinions of an awful lot of people on these forums.

Well, Brad, I'd like to think that we've been friends long enough to not hold a grudge against each other for personal opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 4:24 pm 
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Why don't we just kill all gays, all religious people, and all idiots. The world will be a much better place. We'd all be the same :D

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 Post subject: Re: Do you support homosexual?
PostPosted: December 29th, 2008, 4:26 pm 
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Anubis wrote:
Why don't we just kill all gays, all religious people, and all idiots. The world will be a much better place. We'd all be the same :D


If we kill every single idiot, there would not be much people left on earth :P

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