Shane wrote:
What's the solution without Bonds?
My article will be about
A solution, the problem is too wide spread for any single action to have much lasting effect on it.
Shane wrote:
Banning half the player population wouldn't solve anything. It would cut the amount of people in game down even more. It would also significantly cut into the amount of revenue Jagex can make per month. The rest of our membership fees would go up as a result. Membership fees going up has also been an issue for many people as well.
Banning the offenders cuts out the demand, that's the best way to choke something economically, right? Remove the supply or demand?
Yes, it would cut the amount of active players. There was a day when RS had over 80k players paying only $5 a month. That income was plenty for them and allowed them to expand at a good rate. Then the bots came and raised the average active to 160k at $5. Jagex did some actions against bots and cut it to 120k. Then they had to raise the price to $6. Then bots raised it back to 140k or so I believe and Jagex raised the price to $8. Then came SOF, SGS, and promotional items for membership cards. Then came Bot Watch, BAM down to 80k active players. For some reason RS slowly started losing players after that. They decided to see if 07 servers really were wanted. An overwhelming majority supported them so they brought them back to try to retrieve old subscribers. They got some, raising the average active over 100k again for a time. Again people dwindled away from BOTH games. Now RS usually has around 45k total, 33k EOC and 12k 07.
The question is, why did 100k at $8 not support what 80k at $5 did? $800,000 per month(Plus SOF, SGS, & promo) versus $400,000 per month? Are you telling me costs have really doubled?
Well, it makes sense that costs have raised, after all, they're still running 150+ servers like they were back when there was 160k average active players!
Hmm, is that the problem?
Do the servers cost that much to keep up? It's a no brainer that they don't need so many servers. Barely pulling 50k active now compared to 160k+ a few years ago? Since servers can hold 2k, but no one likes a crowded server, how about we drop the server count to 50? That would lower the upkeep cost by ~60-70%. Makes no financial sense to keep pulling that dead weight. Consolidate to lower costs, side effect is it increases community interaction.
If they raise membership prices they will squeeze people away and shun new subscribers. Lowering prices may actually be better. Would you rather have $8 x1 or $5 x2?
The problem is they have let their costs grow too big based on a bloated income. They grew to a 160k subscriber-worth expenses and then took actions that halved their income yet their costs remained the same. The problem is not just insufficient income, it is too many expenses. If they want to keep the same costs then by all means let the bots and RWTs continue! That's how Runescape gets their money - through subscriptions!
But if they want a fun, inviting, thriving, game they need to lower their costs. Restructure. Be humble and say,
"You know, Bots & RWTs screwed up the game so much that we didn't even realize how far reaching their effects were. An unfortunate side affect of removing these rule breakers was a severe loss of income to us. This will not stop us from banning rule breakers - if you break the rules you WILL be punished. What it means is we have to restructure and consolidate our resources. You, our players, will feel this most when we evaluate the game worlds and re-categorize and remove some. We're going to be honest with you, we'll probably have to remove upwards of 60% of the worlds. We won't do this all at once. We're going to do it 10-20 each month so the condensing of players onto more populated worlds will be smooth. We expect each world to have about 800-1,000 players on at any given time. Some will have close to 2,000 and some will have 500. We will keep at least 1 Member and 1 Free world for each language. More popular languages will receive more worlds, of course. The end result of this will be lower operating costs for us which will in turn allow us to operate smoother. As Runescape expands we will joyfully open more worlds again.
We also may have to let go some of our staff. Although we hate to do so because they're all great people, we might need to in order to keep our costs manageable. This will not affect the quality of future content. To be honest it may make content take a week longer than normal, but we'll be able to plan accordingly and you will hardly notice it. We want to recommit to having a reliable release schedule, two quests per month and another update. As we expand we will re-hire previous staff as we are able and is required."A news post like that would reaffirm my faith in Jagex.
Sure, less worlds would make there be a little competition for some resources, but that's how Runescape was intended. Every world is not supposed to be a ghost town. There should be a few people chopping yews with you, one or two mining coal. And yes, someone might get to the rune rocks before you. These are the things that
help regulate and maintain the economy and value of items.
There is such a thing as
too much accessibility. If stuff is too easy to acquire, to easy to supply, the value will be diminished.
We're all teens or adults here, some of us have gone to Economics or Business Management. We know that expenses > income = bad. You can't always control all of your finances, so you control what you can. Jagex can't control their income, but they can control their spending. Reduce spending where needed, as needed, to reduce expenses.
It's a proven fact that Word-of-Mouth advertising is the most effective(and cheapest!). How does it work? You make a good product and people tell their friends. You're a lot more likely to try something if your friends play it. I'm sure 90% of BnBers can agree they've played at least one game only because a friend suggested it.
Consequently, if you make a bad product people will not tell their friends. They may even tell their friends specifically NOT to play and they'll state why it's bad.
Make a good game, have good morals and act ethically. You
will do better than caving to those with money.
Back in the day the Gowers each owned 33%, Investors owned the other 33%. The Gowers felt it personally when they made bad choices. They also had the authority and ability to make the good but hard decisions, and would feel the rewards from them as well. Now Investors own 55%(or was it more?). Investors want money, nothing else. Investors will drive a game into the ground if it will give them more money than keeping it alive(which is probably the more profitable choice currently considering Jagex is operating at a loss, not that I want it to close).
@Rickles, Thank you. To make things less crowded, I won't always quote all of a paragraph/response, but I have read it and am replying to it as well.
Lord Rickles wrote:
Forgive my overuse of absolutes, but a vast majority of large MMOs do have a black market with goods being bought with real currency.
Forgiven

And yes, the majority of big ones do have RWT problems.
Lord Rickles wrote:
, but even on a small scale, someone selling gold can take place even without bots or anything of that nature. What's stopping a rich RS player from selling gold to someone they meet in game via Paypal? Nothing. It surely does take place. The use of bots just facilitates that and makes it more profitable and "farming" more reliable.
True. And this will continue, regardless of anything Jagex does. Just on a smaller scale.
Lord Rickles wrote:
Bots existed far back in RS classic - remember the Sleeping Bag and fatigue? Those existed to battle bots, and I think it's safe to say that not 100% of those bots were being run just by lazy players.
Yea, I had forgotten those were added to combat bots. Not all were from lazy, but probably most. RSC is so monotonous a simple Mouse Recording would help players substantially. Fatigue negated those, but then more intelligent bots were made. Yes, bots and RWT have been around a large portion of RS's life.
Lord Rickles wrote:
While I am not completely sold on that percentage, that they track massive amounts of gold being transferred between a multitude of different accounts says either two things: there's a ton of people that are very generous to complete strangers or there's an external factor behind the transactions. Gold is being moved around in massive quantities and that's no matter what the rules say or however many warnings and PSAs they have put out telling people not to buy gold.
It's neat they track this. They should also be able to see how many of these people are friends. The trade restrictions they previously had essentially stopped this. Yes, you could junk trade, but other than that you couldn't trade much(if I am forgetting some workaround please mention it). Now, I don't want restricted trade as they had it previously, because that was stupid. But there IS a restricted trade system design that would work wonders against this and barely affect legit players. I plan on talking about this in my article. You can PM me if you want to know beforehand.
Lord Rickles wrote:
It's like prohibition on alcohol or drugs. It's going to take place no matter how strict of rules are in place.
Exactly half my point! Stuff will be done regardless of restrictions put in place. That is why it is
so crucial that what you add does not
affect, destroy, or devalue the legit players' actions.
Lord Rickles wrote:
Obviously the player base doesn't think buying gold is wrong and are willing to assume all the risks (both from Jagex and with their credit card information) behind buying gold.
Of those risks is the BanHammer from Jagex. Either the players are willing to play the wheel and just choose to quit if they're caught, OR they will try it once, and not do it again if they get caught, OR they will just keep doing it with new accounts. If they know the risks then they know the possible outcomes and have thus thought of what they will do. Chances are, they'll come back. If they don't, no one likes a cheater anyways.
Banning players will not kill Runescape, driving players away due to bad choices will. The two are distinctly different. People may come back if they've been banned for blatantly breaking the rules("Dang, I was an idiot, let's try this the right way."). People will not come back if they don't agree with your practices or do not trust your company.
Lord Rickles wrote:
The dark side of gold selling added a very negative feeling to the game in that it took away from the real reason we all play the game, which is to have fun rather than use it to make real money. That improves the integrity of the game, in my view.
Integrity"adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty. "'Tis my meaning of the word. How is Jagex's selling of gold any different? Neither RWTs nor Jagex actually sell gold, they both rely on normal players to amass the gold. Only difference is RWTs handle the cash transaction and now Jagex handles the cash transaction. Yes, Jagex's is safer, but it IS
still gold selling which will
still add a negative feeling that takes away from the real reason we(BnBers at least) play/played the game.
And for the record, RWTs do exactly the same thing as you and me. They harvest resources for hours on end and then sell them to other players on the GE. The
only difference is they then sell that cash for real money. We use the cash to buy equipment or other resources. Except now we can sell that cash for an item worth $5 real money.
It is the same thing. Only difference is when we use bonds we buy an item worth $5 that Jagex has already received instead of giving $5 to some RWT company. It's great of course that Jagex gets the money instead of the RWTs, at least it helps pay the expenses then. The problem is not Jagex getting money, I have nothing against them getting money - they should! The problem is Jagex's stark change of stance and choice to support a practice that has been proven to hurt the game. Buying gold has hurt and destroyed many games, not just RS.
Lord Rickles wrote:
That's a good question, but I think it's important to realize that a money sink wasn't its intended purpose.
I still don't know exactly how the trade tax works. I do agree it helps stabilize the price. No one intelligent would sell a bond at a loss which means they're always going to charge at least 10% more than they paid for it. Which means if tons of bonds are being traded the GE price will rise. If people are constantly buying and reselling at the same price then yes, that will be a money sink. Potentially quite effective if people are dumb enough to not notice their loss.
Lord Rickles wrote:
A few day ban set a message nicely. Outright banning them is no longer discipline or punishment, it is expulsion.
Aye, aye. I never meant to imply to ban without reason or ability to apologize for their actions. First offense should be 3 day ban and removal of cheated cash. Next offense a month ban and removal of cheated/all cash. Then outright permaban.
You're right, punishment without reason and explanation is not discipline. Discipline is meant to teach, not harm.
Lord Rickles wrote:
Consider someone who maybe can't sit at a computer for a long time or is incapable of boss slaying because they can't react fast enough or their internet is too unstable.
I understand these situations. But for some of what you stated I'd say they're playing the wrong game. It's tough but true. Either that or they should do a different activity in RS. Most of RS can be played
without tons of cash,
if only people were willing to work & earn it. I'm not even talking grinding, I'm talking just go pick up an axe and cut a tree, mine a rock, fish! I fish while writing articles; fun, advancing, and completely in the rules. There is a difference between not being
able to do something and not being
willing. Most gold buyers are not
willing. If something could be designed to allow those who are
unable but willing to work to be able to purchase an
equilibrium,
not an
advantage, then I would be happy. The system would have to not allow those who are
able but unwilling to work to purchase an
advantage.
Lord Rickles wrote:
Not budging with the strong moral stance against something isn't solving the issue; you're turning a blind eye to it if anything. You are putting your players in danger by not providing a safe way of purchasing gold through your company. Where's the morality in that?
Correct, not acting at all is the same if not worse than acting in a bad way.
"Not voting, is voting yes."
If they didn't take action then they are essentially saying it's fine and we don't care enough about the players to protect them nor do we care enough for the game to maintain its integrity.
But also, doing SOMETHING is just as bad as doing nothing. One of the stupidest things I hear is, "OMG, Such and such happened, we have to do SOMETHING!"
Doing
any action without analyzing its effects fully can be just as bad.
"Oh look, that bad guy over there is going to shoot that hostage in front of him, I'll shoot him and save the hostage!
Blam!
Oh dang, I forgot that at this distance my bullet would go right
through the bad guy and kill the hostage."
Not analyzing and realizing the consequences can, and usually will, make things worse than before. Even when something is done with good intentions as these Bonds were, it
can still cause unwanted side-effects. It doesn't always, but it can and often does.
Lord Rickles wrote:
I wouldn't read into that too much.
And of course he's reading a script. Anyone giving a presentation of any kind practices beforehand, don't they?
Just seemed like an odd word choice to me.
And yea, people should practice beforehand. Which is why it seemed so obvious that he was reading a script. He didn't know where the paragraph breaks were. At one point he stops in the middle of a sentence thinking it's the end. He also didn't feel personal. He was speaking to a wall, not his players.
Just how I felt when watching it.
addiv wrote:
Jagex isn't the villain here. If players weren't buying gold, the gold sellers would dry up.
You're right, Addiv, Jagex is not the Villain, the Gold Farmers & Buyers are. Jagex, unfortunately, has made themselves the Middleman Accountant with the little black book. Not bad thesmselves, but condoning bad practices and actions nonetheless.