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Should vivisection and/or animal testing be allowed?
Yes- both 18%  18%  [ 5 ]
Yes- both 18%  18%  [ 5 ]
Animal testing only- not vivisection 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Animal testing only- not vivisection 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Animal testing- only if humane 25%  25%  [ 7 ]
Animal testing- only if humane 25%  25%  [ 7 ]
No, neither under any circumstances 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
No, neither under any circumstances 7%  7%  [ 2 ]
Total votes: 28
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 Post subject: Animal testing and vivisection - should it be allowed?
PostPosted: December 1st, 2009, 12:51 pm 
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Vivisection and animal testing is widely used throughout the World as a means of biological and medical study, including Europe and America. What should be done about it? Is is unethical and cruel? Is it even necessary?

Note: it's important to distinguish between animal testing and vivisection- they are NOT the same thing.

Vivisection - The action of cutting, surgery or other invasive treatment of a living organism for the purposes of physiological or pathological scientific investigation.

Animal testing - The use of non-human animals in experiments.

I've provided a poll, but this is obviously very restrictive. Please share your thoughts on this subject by posting.

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PostPosted: December 1st, 2009, 12:51 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Animal testing and vivisection - should it be allowed?
PostPosted: December 1st, 2009, 1:41 pm 
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Vivisection
I don't want them to go and dig around in some animal just to find out something that can be found out in other ways, but at the same time, it allows them to study on the anatomy of that animal. Say, if they were to dig around in a dog and study it's anatomy, they would be able to help out another dog if it gets hurt or sick.

Animal Testing
Strongly against them using chemicals and such on any kind of dog, cat, or any kind of house animal. As long as it's like a rat or mouse, I'm completely fine with it. If they did, however, use their things on dogs and cats and such, I'd try to do everything in my power to get them to stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Animal testing and vivisection - should it be allowed?
PostPosted: December 1st, 2009, 2:29 pm 
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If it is for anything like cosmetic or the like then not at all.
And if for whatever reason it has the potential of making faster computers because of it (idk lol) then not at all. Or like to provide military training by shooting pigs or whatever it is etc etc etc.

For medical things, only if there is relevance and there are no non animal alternatives. And a very good reason to suspect useful observations (not like "hey lets starve a bunch of rats until they die to observe their sexuality patterns, maybe we will find the cure to cancer!"). If it comes to animals, it should be done in ways that minimize suffering.

But really, nothing else. Especially when there are non animal torturing alternatives. & University experiments to teach students shouldn't involve animals.

And of definitely not things like:
Quote:
A pregnant cat pulled out of the Davis County animal shelter gave birth to eight kittens the very day she arrived at UU's laboratories. When the kittens were just 7 days old, a chemical was injected into their brains to cause fluid to build up. After the surgery, the distressed cat—who showed great affection for her kittens before they were taken for the experiment—stopped nursing her babies, and they all died.
In other experiments, a cat named Robert, who was also bought from the Davis County animal shelter, had a hole drilled into his skull and electrodes attached to his brain, and dogs bought from a local shelter had their necks cut open so that medical devices could be implanted inside.
Mice and rats were given enormous tumors and painful, deadly illnesses. Rats had holes drilled into their skulls for invasive brain experiments. Monkeys were kept constantly thirsty so that they would cooperate in experiments for a sip of water. Sick and injured animals were denied veterinary care and left to languish and die.
Incompetence, indifference, and neglect forced many of the animals to endure severe trauma, prolonged suffering, and agonizingly slow and grisly deaths.
Mice whose back legs were paralyzed, rats suffering epileptic seizures, and mice with huge ulcerated tumors covering their bodies were left to suffer.
A rabbit was left in a hallway without food or water for four days
PETA's investigator routinely found mice who had been allowed to die without any care.
Some animals had been dead for days, and their cagemates had to walk around their bodies to get to their food and water.
One monkey was kept in solitary confinement, caged alone in a room with no chance to interact with or even see others of his own kind.
Experimenters kept some monkeys constantly thirsty so that they would cooperate during experiments just to get a few drops of water.
In classroom experiments at Arizona State University, rabbits have holes cut into their necks, and they are injected with various drugs before being killed.
frogs have pins stuck through their skulls and are dissected alive, rats are placed in chambers in which the pressure is lowered until they are nearly unconscious, and cockroaches have their legs cut off
experiments by a concerned Bucknell University alumnus and found that for 30 years, Prof. Owen Floody has been drilling holes into the skulls of female hamsters, damaging their brains, and observing the injuries' effects on the hamsters' sexual behavior

Of course, I don't know the relevance of the experiments but..


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 Post subject: Re: Animal testing and vivisection - should it be allowed?
PostPosted: December 1st, 2009, 2:58 pm 
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If there's no alternative that works just as well then sure go ahead and do it. Those that think otherwise should volunteer to take the poor bunny's place if there that bothered.

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 Post subject: Re: Animal testing and vivisection - should it be allowed?
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2009, 4:11 am 
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If a cure for AIDS came from cutting open new born kittens then sure. why the heck not?

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 Post subject: Re: Animal testing and vivisection - should it be allowed?
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2009, 5:21 am 
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I sort of agree with Warren's first point, for medical and scientific research that could save human lives and cure disease, yes. For other reasons, no.

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PostPosted: December 2nd, 2009, 5:21 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Animal testing and vivisection - should it be allowed?
PostPosted: December 4th, 2009, 2:13 pm 
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So far I think everyone agrees no for cosmetic experiments, and yes to medical research.

My argument would be that actually, we know pretty much all there is to know on the physiology side of things (at least in humans), the only real exception being our brains. And in terms of medical research and drugs, we actually only learn a very limited amount from testing on animals. Once we've passed the stage of "is it poisonous?" there us very little else we can do other than testing on humans. Our medical knowledge has come so far that even my testing on our nearest relatives, apes, which admitidly are very similar to us genetically, are actually worlds away from humans biologically. Our medical research nowadays needs to be so precise that testing on anything other than humans is practically useless. Sure it may be EASIER to do certain tests on animals, particularly in the early stages of development of new products, but there are nearly always alternatives that don't involve animals.

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 Post subject: Re: Animal testing and vivisection - should it be allowed?
PostPosted: December 5th, 2009, 6:12 am 
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Just cut up a (dead) rat friday, for educational purporses (I'm studying biomedical sciences).
You learn ten times as much from own observations than by a textbook.
I think that vivisection and testing should be allowed, but only if it has a greater purpose.

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