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 Post subject: spuds miniguide to melee tank building (incomplete)
PostPosted: May 11th, 2007, 6:12 pm 
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this guide was made as a response to another users topic. i went a little overboard and decided it would be put to better use in this forum than in a topic that would die in a day or so.

whitedragon wrote:
I've decided to try and make a defense pure to kill the annoying strength pures. What do you think i should be training on?


ahh! melee tanking! something i know a bit about!

first off, a short summary of prayer and its leveling. if you use prayer in combat against a melee pure, they will call you a noob. that is not a possiblity, it is a fact. prayer levels your combat interestingly... from level 1 it takes 4 prayer levels to advance a combat level, then 8 from there on out. so the scale looks like this:

prayer
level
cmb level
increase
10
51
132
213
294
375
456
537
618
699
7710
8511
9312


so to minimize cmb level and maximize prayer, raise it to 1 under the cmb increase point. so levels 4, 12, 20, 28, 36, 44, 52, 60, 68, 76, 84, and 92 get you the most bang for your buck. this will come in handy when deciding where to raise your prayer level.

its almost impossible to get up to tanking defense levels without raising your other combat skills. and as a melee tank, your main combat style will be melee. from here you can chose one of a few roles. you can be strength oriented low accuracy, accuracy oriented low strength, or strength-accuracy balanced. no matter what, as a tank, you should at least have 70 defense, if not 80. remember, part of being a tank is that your defense is typically the highest stat you have.


attack: delicate balance. do you want barrows/whip? or just dragon weapons? attack is either or. not in the middle.

strength: is hitting all that high really important to you? thats why you are a tank right... you don't care. go with at least 50 to beat legends to use the d sq in staking. the higher you get, the higher you must raise your defense proportionally, or else you'll lose tank status. must be at most 5 levels under your def level.

defense: the whole reason you're here. make it or break it. if you're sticking with dragon and low str, you can get away with just 70, but if you go for barrows and whip, you need to get at least 80.

prayer: as discussed earlier, prayer could make or break your fight. its totally optional. for prayer, do one of the following:
1 prayer: not a prayer user
28 prayer: protect item for pking
36 prayer: use of all 3rd level melee booster prayers
44 prayer: protect from melee prayer
52 prayer: smite your opponents
60 prayer: long lasting use of all prayers. you can pray your hidden prayers the whole fight.
(some levels raised to the point of maximum efficiency

magic: what? magic? but i'm a melee based tank! RONG!!! as a tank, it's your duty to block all attacks. with 70 defense you can block ranged and melee, but magic beats you to a pulp. your magic level should equal your defense level to provide equal protection from magics, wherever you may find them

ranging: you can do whatever you want here... it wont help you, it'll just raise your combat level higher than you need it due to the hp gain. unless you cannon all the way... otherwise ranged is useless to a melee tank. if you really want to, get 70 and no higher. just enough to wear black d hide to look intimidating.

so, put it all together, and it looks like this.

hit: 63
atk: 60
ste: 50
def: 70
rng: 1
pry: 1
mg: 70
total combat level for a skeleton tank: 69


whereas if you put up at the max for everything we covered.

hit: 77
atk: 70
ste: 75
def: 80
rng: 70
pry: 60
mg: 80
total combat level for a fully loaded tank: 93


as you can see there is quite a bit of difference in levels... the lower you are, the closer to an actual pure you appear to be. so a skeletal tank would probably work best. notice the hp levels as well. these are at the highest they will be if you raise your stats through pure combat, so quest experience, pest control, and other factors have not been taken into account. thus, the hp level may be higher or lower depending on circumstances.

now, for equipment...tanks do 1 of 2 things. differentiate, ore assimilate.

differentiation, is wearing the best defensive gear you can. in the duel arena, that would be:
torag's
helm
obsidian
cape
amulet
of fury
torag's
platebody
new crystal shield/
dragon square shield
torag's
platelegs
barrows
gloves
rune
boots
fremenik ring
of your choice


differentiation shows everyone that you ARE a tank and not to take you lightly. you're showing off that you use a different strategy for melee combat. this is the more common of the options.

the second choice is assimilation, which is basically the opposite of differentiation. you wear the best offensive gear around. max strength bonus, accuracy bonus, etc. the armor for that is as follows:

berserker helm/
warriors helm
lol, good luck getting
the fire cape =P
amulet
of fury
pennance
torso
rune
defender
any legs that req 40
defense or less
barrows
gloves
runebootswarriors ring or
berserker ring


assimilation's goal is to blend in with the crowd. you want people to think you are a rune pure, and not a tank. if you're at the arena, you may keep the helm of nietiznot and dragon/barrows legs in your inventory, just don't let anyone see you in them while you are seeking an opponent. remember. nietiznot screams that you have 55 defense, and barrows screams 70.

note that if you assimilate, you will hit much higher and more often than if you differentiate.


THE MIDDLE PATH: of course, you most likely wont form a tank to the exact specifications above, so here are some options that the rich kids use to tank, and rather effectively i might add...

BY POPULAR DEMAND BY THE OFFENSE OBSESSED GOONS WHO ALL USE PURES THEMSELVES AND NOT TANKS...

A very good balance of power and defense, is the verac's barrows set. since you wont be hitting too high under most tank circumstances, the veracs set special ability provides you with a decent chance of ignoring your opponents defense bonuses for a turn. this essentially is like swapping out your opponents defending capabilities to that of a goblin. the end result, is that you hit closer to your max much more of the time, and hopefully speed up your rate of damage distribution.

a handy item to have is the dragon battle axe. with a quick click of the special button, you're stats will alter from a tank's to more of the balanced players stats. ie, if you had 70 attack, 60 strength and 80 defense, you'd lose 15% of attack and defense, and gain 20% strength, making you 60 attack, 72 strength, and 68 defense. if you prefer to hit higher, and don't have the potions to do it, the dragon battle axe is your friend.

a new friend to the tanking world, is the berserker neclace. this neclace is a very dangerous item to both the user and the target...

to the disadvantage of the wielder, this neclace reduces all accuracy bonuses by 10, and all defense bonuses by 20. to pures and balanced players, that accuracy and defense loss can be a major hurt, but the defense loss doesn't really hurt a tank all that much. to the disadvantage of the enemy, this neclace gives the wielder a +7 strength bonus, and gives a 20% hidden strength bonus while wielding an obsidian melee weapon. piled with the dragon battleaxe special ability, and the obsidian weapons already having better stats when compared to dragon weaponry, this combination can prove very deadly. on a tank, the only major flaw is that accuracy is still pretty low. thanks to the magic of max hit calculators, and a little deduction, i'll list the max hits with this weapon at various strength levels. this chart shows the max hit range at each listed strength level, assuming you have drunk a sip of super strength potion, or used the dragon battle axe special attack, and are using the ultimate strength prayer. damage range is based on having just the weapon and the neclace, and having the max str gear in combination with weapon and neclace.

Obsidian split sword
strength505560657075
max hit19-2420-2521-2724-3025-3226-33
Obsidian knife
strength505560657075
max hit16-2118-2420-2621-2722-3024-32
Obsidian mace
strength505560657075
max hit19-2521-2622-2825-3126-3327-36
Obsidian maul
strength505560657075
max hitN/AN/A27-3330-3632-3834-40


Note: i strongly advise not fighting a pure under their terms like this... even with a high defense level, if you wear no armour and have -20 to all def stats, you WILL be killed by 3 or less DDS special attacks. this method is for fighting people who let you wear all your armour. i also advise that you use a rune defender over a toktz ket xil. while a xil will more than negate the defense loss from the aulet and increase your strength, the defender will negate the necklace's defense drain, and increase your accuracy, which is precious to you with such high power behind your hits... the last thing you want is to hit 5s and 6s due to low accuracy.


HEY! DID YOU NOTICE? for those who ask "why don't you talk about pking? you only say what to use at the duel arena!" my answer is "because i suck at pking" im a nervous wreck in the wilderness. i shake more than the women of "bay-watch" do... so for pking you'll have to strategize on your own.

lastly, you may ask, "how do you know about tanks mr. spud?"
the answer: I am one...

hitsattackstrengthdefenserangedprayermagic
current75707081655667
end goals85707090707090


lucky me, i started being a tank way too late. so my format is a little screwed up. but i have a nice little guy who'll make a fine skeleton tank in the works. I hope this miniguide helps all of my brothers and sisters on their way to annihilating... DEFENSE NOOB STYLE.


Note: this guide is not meant to completely cover all aspects of melee tanking. there is much much more out there i have yet to describe that all comes from character customization. please don't complain that something is missing. if you have a suggestion, pm me and i may add it in, with acknowledgments to you, if i believe it is worthwhile to add in the guide. also, any major typos or blunders i any have made, pm me about that too.

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Last edited by Bellicosity on May 13th, 2007, 11:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: May 11th, 2007, 6:12 pm 
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PostPosted: May 11th, 2007, 9:27 pm 
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"differentiation, is wearing the best defensive gear you can. in the duel arena, that would be:"

WRONG. In staking, you're better off wearing full veracs for the ability to penetrate defence.


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PostPosted: May 11th, 2007, 9:55 pm 
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killerz, I'd appreciate it if you didn't display such a hostile attitude. I'd also appreciate it if you think before you speak. first of all, i never said anything about staking, and neither did the question this guide was built to answer. Second, veracs is an offense based armour. its stats are weak relative to all the other melee barrows sets, and its effect is made to get through your enemies armour. veracs may be good armour, but it tips closer to assimilationist strength based combat.

maybe i should explain a bit... in runescape, as most people know, the game is dominated by high power sweepers. a vast majority of players seek power with defense as the sacrifice. most players are under the impression that having high defending capabilities just makes your character weak. that is what we tanks are out to prove. assimilation deals with the transfer from one culture to another, and in runescape, combat assimilation means falling into the stereotype mindset that strength is the only path to victory. differnetiation deals with making yourself known in a group, or distinguishing key differences between others. in runescape, this concept recognizes that there are alternatives to pure brute force.

runescape assimilationists are those that focus on power over defense, so when a tank focuses more on the hitting aspect of the fight, the player could be considered more assimilationist than some tanks. likewise, players who take total pride in their alternative combat choice differentiate themselves from the typical power hungry strategy.

of course when it comes down to it, a tank is a tank, no matter which way they sway, they're still a tank. in closing, I'd appreciate it if you payed attention to what i said at the end of the guide... I'd like all suggestions to be sent to me via pm, instead of just blurting it out. nto many people share the mind of a tank, and as such, dont' respect the methods they employ, so to prevent anyone from saying something that might stray potential tanks, please listen to my requests in the future.

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PostPosted: May 12th, 2007, 7:49 am 
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Actually he's right, with 70 50 80 let's say, you won't be hitting any harder than many normal people your level. Therefore, it's obvious you have to hit more often. That leaves with 2 options, raising atk and therefore, your combat, and according to you, your def level too, OR you can use Verac's special and you can hit more often than if you were whipping with a d sq.

True, torag's armor gives more defence bonus, but the difference is very insignificant and I think only appears in the helmet. It's better to just sacrifice that minimal amound of defence bonus and hit much more often than to just dds and whip.

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PostPosted: May 12th, 2007, 8:05 am 
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I wasn't being hostile, I was pointing out an error which to me is major.

Quote:
I'd also appreciate it if you think before you speak. first of all, i never said anything about staking


You mean you're gonna spend months training up a tank build only to do fun duels in the duel arena? People go there to stake, son.

Quote:
its stats are weak relative to all the other melee barrows sets,


That's the reason why you actually get high defence at lower level, to eliminate the defence disadvantage.


-----


The reason why Verac is vital for any defense tank staker is because it can hit through armor.

A typical defence tank would have 70 40 70, with that build, your maximum would be mere 12s. That's low, compared to say, staking against a rune pure with 70 70 40, which can deal 19s with their whips. Because your armor and defence is high, it's only a matter of time for you to get him down before he hits you massively.

Remember that if defence is ignored, you're bound to hit in the higher damages, so you're obviously going to hit constant 9-12s, as opposed to random hits varying from 0-12.


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PostPosted: May 12th, 2007, 8:38 am 
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yes, ultima killerz,. i know that people don't waste time and effort just to fun fight, but i don't assume anything when it comes to that. They may be making a staker, or they could be making a pker, or they could just be making a new account to try to play on. if you've been playing as a pure, playing as a tank is worlds apart in terms of game experience.

yes, thorny. veracs is a good possibility, but my guide is based on choice, and as i've said, what 3 times? its a miniguide... as in not complete or full in content. thats why the title includes "open for editing". I will also recognize here, that although i listed the full offensive and full defensive armour sets, I never intended that to mean those were the only options; sorry if it appeared that way. when it comes down to it, a tank should experiment with different armour and weapon classes, and find a strategy that they like. thats another one of the reasons why this guide isn't an exact mold for the perfect tank sort of thing. the last thing i want is for someone to mindlessly build an untested character only to find out they don't like it, and then are unable to try other methods because of the choices they've already made.

i laid down a base for how to form a tank, not a complete manual of every tanking possibility. if i was actually going to take the day or so to make sure i've covered all aspects of tanking, and was willing to make and test all the combinations, then yes, i would probably have included verac's armour as a highly recommended option, and given it the spud-man's seal of approval. but, seeing as im a little busy between forming one account into a high combat overgrown tank, another into an alternative spell mage tank, and a third into a quest pure, while still trying to enjoy the game on all 3 accounts.

now, in parting, I'd really appreciate it if you'd stop biting my neck while i try to shake your hand. im not as inexperienced as you might think... oh, and diplomacy will get you everywhere with me =p.

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PostPosted: May 12th, 2007, 8:38 am 
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PostPosted: May 12th, 2007, 9:52 am 
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You say it's open for suggestion yet when a suggestion was made, you say that you aren't making a real guide? Sorry, but that seems strange to me.

I think what Kill3rz and I are trying to say is that Torags is not the ideal option for a melee tank, and that you should (not must) make some changes.

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PostPosted: May 12th, 2007, 10:03 am 
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A melee tank would pick verac at duel arena because it can ignore armor and prayer. Its defenitly the best armor to Pvp with. The tank would pick Barrow glove, Fire or Obby cape with fury, berseker ring and climbing boots. With 52 PRAYER NO MORE! Because if its too high, you will hit a less harder. Basicly a tank have a high deff and a high attack or strenght. A PURE wear stuff like black d'hide,whip,obby shield,warrior ring,obby cape,and might torag's helm.

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PostPosted: May 12th, 2007, 10:21 am 
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ok so i'm being bombarded by 1 track minds... apparently none of you are getting the point im trying to make... untill someone politely and logically suggests and explains their proposal IN A PRIVATE MESSAGE AS I CLEARLY ASKED... nothing will happen to my guide. good or bad as it is by whichever you perspective you have.

oh, and did it ever occur to anyone to say something positive? like "nice guide. it covers a lot, but i think you should include (insert subject here)... i'll write you up with details later" or something like that? or is this whole planet just obsessed with stabbing other peoples confidence and being rude?

oh, and on a side note, i've changed the title from "spud's miniguide to melee tanking. (open for editing)" to "spuds miniguide to melee tank building (incomplete)". maybe that will help clarify things a little bit...

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PostPosted: May 12th, 2007, 7:08 pm 
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Oh I'm sorry, it's just that your arrogance is very provocative. >.<

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PostPosted: May 12th, 2007, 8:56 pm 
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if its meant to be a dueler, stay 1 prayer

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PostPosted: May 13th, 2007, 5:12 am 
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xOhyax Isn't it meant to be a tank? If it is surely it would have high def...ahh well.
I think its getting abit outofhand and a mod will lock it if it continues..
Im not saying stop it because Im not a moderator I am just saying its abit flame-baity. :?

And It's a good guide. Well written.. (I don't know how you could do all those tables.. o.O)


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PostPosted: May 13th, 2007, 9:41 pm 
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well i'm glad someone appreciates me, at least a little... Humus, have a cookie.

EDIT: sorry folks, i caved... added an offensive strat section. includes a brief section of verac's, a sentence or 2 on the usefullness and effects of the dragon battle axe special for a tank, and a rather large description of the obsidian weapons under the influence of the berserker necklace.

i hope that appeases the pures and str as highest stat players out there that don't' believe defense can do it on its own. although i gave in this time, if in the future, anyone wants something added, PLEASE! PLEASE JUST PM IT TO ME! i fyou actually do as i request, i'll acknowledge you as the contributor, instead of make a frustrated snap toward you.

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PostPosted: May 14th, 2007, 10:33 am 
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To add to dbaxe, if your STAKING, and your doing ALL armor on, use veracs with dbaxe, if your doing no shield or somethin that prevents you from using full barrows set, use dds. :D

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PostPosted: May 14th, 2007, 11:54 am 
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I don't think Obsidian weapons would pose much a threat. They're weak, except the maul, which apparently is slow.

But seriously, nobody stakes with prayer on, potions on, unless again, you're referring to fun-duels, which is not worth spending super pots on nor letting your barrow items corrode in unneeded battles.

The only time you'd use something else than Verac in duels, is when shields/helms are off.

Considering how most Verac stakers have 70 45 70, I have totally no idea why you regard it as an offensive style. Unless you mean being a tank is all about recieving 0s and dealing 0s as well. Which is pointless. Seriously.

"BY POPULAR DEMAND BY THE OFFENSE OBSESSED GOONS WHO ALL USE PURES THEMSELVES AND NOT TANKS..."

Hello, Mr. Flamebait.


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