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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 9th, 2009, 2:42 am 
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Like Creepy said, it seems like it was this or shutting the whole thing down for good. Maybe this will increase SOTW's waning popularity but I have my reservations. Too little too late I can't help but think.

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PostPosted: February 9th, 2009, 2:42 am 
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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 9th, 2009, 6:50 pm 
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I like the zero wins idea, but maybe bump it up to 2 0r 3 wins as I don't think there are enough people that will enter that week, I will though :D

If everyone un-biases themselves this will work perfect, and I rather have this then none.

And the only real way to make people vote on the art itself not the artists, is to censor the names until the winner is decided and have the entries pmed to Chief Snake or whoever will run the new Sotw.


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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 11th, 2009, 4:19 pm 
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Ok so many people are on both sides on this. I can see why...

Yes, maybe it will be a popularity contest for people and the bnb community will vote for their friends instead of the actual deserving signature that was made the best and deserves the true vote. This is definatly something that will be a problem at some point or another. So what I'm going to suggest is to keep some sort of judge system still. Not even a judge system, just something to look over that area of the forums. So if someone that DOES know how to judge a signature sees that there is some kind of friendly voting going on we can fix it.

Thats just an idea...

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 11th, 2009, 4:56 pm 
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Sounds like you are suggesting something like SOTW Moderators who would keep order in the SOTW forums. That would be good because then the Global Moderators wouldn't have to Moderate SOTW.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 11th, 2009, 5:01 pm 
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jrdgames wrote:
Sounds like you are suggesting something like SOTW Moderators who would keep order in the SOTW forums. That would be good because then the Global Moderators wouldn't have to Moderate SOTW.


If there is any problems within SOTW forums normal members can report it and global moderators will take care of it promptly. There is absolutely no need for any kind of specialist SOTW mod, especially as it's not massively active.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 11th, 2009, 5:42 pm 
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To be perfectlyyy honest, I'm of the same state of mind here when it was 'decided' that the SOTM should be voted for by the general population. It's not an election, it's a competition on which is the 'best' signature. Now, forgive me if I'm of an opposite opinion to anyone else, but a man who cannot read cannot say one book is better than another. A person who has no idea on what makes a 'good' signature other than it looking pretty should not be eligible for voting.

The extent to which I 'care' about my job goes beyond having a rank. I've always elected myself to help on this website and over the few years I've been trying, all those jobs I've had have disappeared (bar a few I became unable to continue with, due to a lack of interest in Runescape). I'm not upset the SOTW is changing, I'm upset that we only get a 'thanks, goodbye'.

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 Post subject: Register and login to get these in-post ads to disappear
PostPosted: February 11th, 2009, 5:42 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 11th, 2009, 8:30 pm 
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This situation reminds me of a story that was on our news just last night - a woman was collecting toys and clothes for victims of the bushfires in Victoria, Australia, but was told her efforts were not needed [full story].

Bay of Plenty locals who had swung in behind the appeal are also upset.
"I feel that our generosity has actually been thrown back in our face," says supporter Judy Green.
Those at the bushfire coalface disagree, saying it is more about what is practical.


Anubis wrote:
I'm not upset the SOTW is changing, I'm upset that we only get a 'thanks, goodbye'.

Realistically, we can't do much else.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 12th, 2009, 12:53 am 
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Anubis wrote:
To be perfectlyyy honest, I'm of the same state of mind here when it was 'decided' that the SOTM should be voted for by the general population. It's not an election, it's a competition on which is the 'best' signature. Now, forgive me if I'm of an opposite opinion to anyone else, but a man who cannot read cannot say one book is better than another. A person who has no idea on what makes a 'good' signature other than it looking pretty should not be eligible for voting.

The extent to which I 'care' about my job goes beyond having a rank. I've always elected myself to help on this website and over the few years I've been trying, all those jobs I've had have disappeared (bar a few I became unable to continue with, due to a lack of interest in Runescape). I'm not upset the SOTW is changing, I'm upset that we only get a 'thanks, goodbye'.


How can you say you're not upset about SOTW changing and then go on about how much of a bad idea you clearly think it is? I had no hand whatsoever in making this decision and didn't know about it until I read it, because it's nothing to do with me. But even I can see that this is being done because SOTW's popularity was severely dropping. Surely you must agree that this is better than it being stopped all together?

I can't really agree with your assessment of a person being eligible for voting in a signature contest either. This is the internet and people make sigs for fun. If you want to go and judge the Turner Prize, fine, you'd need some expertise in art for that. But this is not serious buisness and we should not hold it to unreasonable and arrogant standards such as that.

And you of all people should know by now that when big changes are made we just give a 'thanks, goodbye'. I don't think in anyway that is unreasonable. That's how the real world works for the most part. You can't expect us to always give a **** what people think about our decisions. Most of the times we take decisions for the good of the site first and the good of the individual second.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 12th, 2009, 1:25 am 
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Brad wrote:
Anubis wrote:
To be perfectlyyy honest, I'm of the same state of mind here when it was 'decided' that the SOTM should be voted for by the general population. It's not an election, it's a competition on which is the 'best' signature. Now, forgive me if I'm of an opposite opinion to anyone else, but a man who cannot read cannot say one book is better than another. A person who has no idea on what makes a 'good' signature other than it looking pretty should not be eligible for voting.

The extent to which I 'care' about my job goes beyond having a rank. I've always elected myself to help on this website and over the few years I've been trying, all those jobs I've had have disappeared (bar a few I became unable to continue with, due to a lack of interest in Runescape). I'm not upset the SOTW is changing, I'm upset that we only get a 'thanks, goodbye'.


How can you say you're not upset about SOTW changing and then go on about how much of a bad idea you clearly think it is? I had no hand whatsoever in making this decision and didn't know about it until I read it, because it's nothing to do with me. But even I can see that this is being done because SOTW's popularity was severely dropping. Surely you must agree that this is better than it being stopped all together?

I can't really agree with your assessment of a person being eligible for voting in a signature contest either. This is the internet and people make sigs for fun. If you want to go and judge the Turner Prize, fine, you'd need some expertise in art for that. But this is not serious buisness and we should not hold it to unreasonable and arrogant standards such as that.

And you of all people should know by now that when big changes are made we just give a 'thanks, goodbye'. I don't think in anyway that is unreasonable. That's how the real world works for the most part. You can't expect us to always give a **** what people think about our decisions. Most of the times we take decisions for the good of the site first and the good of the individual second.


I understand where you're coming from about everyone being able to vote for a SOTW since it's just for fun anyway, but then where did the rationality that judges should be used come from in the first place? Obviously someone felt that someone of expertise should be deciding who is the winner, not the general public. So what happened between then and now that changed this mindset?

I realize that the SOTW isn't the most popular of things, but there was a steady entrance of participants, it's not like nobody was making signatures. I also realize that this wasn't your decision, I'm not trying to direct these questions towards you. Now, I'm not signature maker and I don't see how someone can say one signature is better based on the placement of text or whatever, but I just don't see how turning the SOTW into a popularity contest (don't mark my words, I could be completely wrong) is going to save it. I think it was doing fine before...

Then again, I suppose there's nothing wrong with trying something new, as long as Shane and Chief Snake and whoever else was running the SOTW are willing to change it back if this doesn't turn out. Other than that, this whole thing doesn't really concern me, I just thought it was an odd decision to remove the SOTW Judges (who apparently still retain their ranks as of now...?)


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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 12th, 2009, 2:33 am 
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Other criticism aside, it worries me that so many of you are complaining about this becoming a popularity contest. As far as I can see, this should not be a problem at all, but from the common outlooks I'm beginning to doubt my faith in the community. Do you not trust yourselves? Does the SOTM not work as it is?

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 12th, 2009, 3:47 am 
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Total Plox wrote:
Brad wrote:
Anubis wrote:
To be perfectlyyy honest, I'm of the same state of mind here when it was 'decided' that the SOTM should be voted for by the general population. It's not an election, it's a competition on which is the 'best' signature. Now, forgive me if I'm of an opposite opinion to anyone else, but a man who cannot read cannot say one book is better than another. A person who has no idea on what makes a 'good' signature other than it looking pretty should not be eligible for voting.

The extent to which I 'care' about my job goes beyond having a rank. I've always elected myself to help on this website and over the few years I've been trying, all those jobs I've had have disappeared (bar a few I became unable to continue with, due to a lack of interest in Runescape). I'm not upset the SOTW is changing, I'm upset that we only get a 'thanks, goodbye'.


How can you say you're not upset about SOTW changing and then go on about how much of a bad idea you clearly think it is? I had no hand whatsoever in making this decision and didn't know about it until I read it, because it's nothing to do with me. But even I can see that this is being done because SOTW's popularity was severely dropping. Surely you must agree that this is better than it being stopped all together?

I can't really agree with your assessment of a person being eligible for voting in a signature contest either. This is the internet and people make sigs for fun. If you want to go and judge the Turner Prize, fine, you'd need some expertise in art for that. But this is not serious buisness and we should not hold it to unreasonable and arrogant standards such as that.

And you of all people should know by now that when big changes are made we just give a 'thanks, goodbye'. I don't think in anyway that is unreasonable. That's how the real world works for the most part. You can't expect us to always give a **** what people think about our decisions. Most of the times we take decisions for the good of the site first and the good of the individual second.


I understand where you're coming from about everyone being able to vote for a SOTW since it's just for fun anyway, but then where did the rationality that judges should be used come from in the first place? Obviously someone felt that someone of expertise should be deciding who is the winner, not the general public. So what happened between then and now that changed this mindset?

I realize that the SOTW isn't the most popular of things, but there was a steady entrance of participants, it's not like nobody was making signatures. I also realize that this wasn't your decision, I'm not trying to direct these questions towards you. Now, I'm not signature maker and I don't see how someone can say one signature is better based on the placement of text or whatever, but I just don't see how turning the SOTW into a popularity contest (don't mark my words, I could be completely wrong) is going to save it. I think it was doing fine before...

Then again, I suppose there's nothing wrong with trying something new, as long as Shane and Chief Snake and whoever else was running the SOTW are willing to change it back if this doesn't turn out. Other than that, this whole thing doesn't really concern me, I just thought it was an odd decision to remove the SOTW Judges (who apparently still retain their ranks as of now...?)


This is how I see the rationale of Shane and Chief Snake and whoever else was behind this decision, but I've not spoken to either of those two directly about their motives for this so I could be completely wrong. But I believed they announced the removal of the judges group and made it like a weekly sotm to try and boost the popularity. Maybe if more people could vote it'd encourage more people to enter and so on so forth.

I'm really not sure why a group of judges was installed in the first place when SOTW started. I honestly don't see how anyone can pull out the 'I know about making sigs therefore my opinion is more valid than yours' argument. This is a forum for mmorpg players, past and present, none of us are serious artists. If you want to be a serious artist you wouldn't hang around making photoshop signatures on RSBANDB. I'm not denying there are plenty of people who know more about making signatures and photoshop than most of us, but I don't see how that makes their opinions instantly more valid.

People suggest favourtism might be rife now its a public vote but surely there could already have been plenty of favourtism within the sotw judges group? If it was suggested that the majority of the forum population would only vote for who they 'liked' or their friends then surely the same accusation could be made to the (former) judges?

I honestly don't see how this majorly changes anything, It's not a step forward, it's not a step back, it's a step sideways.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 12th, 2009, 6:31 am 
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Honestly, I don't see the point in this.

SOTM doesn't really give much chance for popularity, since it's a competition for winners. SOTW, on the other hand, is far different. Anyone can enter. While true, the best signature would still win, it doesn't seem quite fair that even the crappiest sig would get votes it would not deserve.

And then the first-week-of-month rule. You do realise what will eventually happen? One person will be denied the chance to enter each first week, and eventually, trophies will be given to those with no graphical ability whatsoever. Or nobody will enter anymore. Also, the first week isn't likely to ever win SOTM.

But seriously, what is the point? Letting the community to vote isn't going to make people enter more (Except for week 1 of each month, of course, but it's pretty pointless since it's going to lack the graphic). It's just going to make people vote, and that's not what SOTW wants, is it? Votes of people with no expertise in the area? I've seen bad sigs win SOTM before.

This seems like a forced change to me. Removal of Sandbox was too. All it did was move the drama and flaming to other areas (aminotrite? I think most of my warnings are from Non-RS Discussion) while also destroying the only thing that made RSBANDB unique.

This clearly is a change, but it's not a good change. Sometimes changes are not wanted, and to me, SOTW has been fine all this time. Maybe it lacks entries, but this isn't going to change it.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 12th, 2009, 6:48 am 
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Slimppu wrote:
Honestly, I don't see the point in this.

SOTM doesn't really give much chance for popularity, since it's a competition for winners. SOTW, on the other hand, is far different. Anyone can enter. While true, the best signature would still win, it doesn't seem quite fair that even the crappiest sig would get votes it would not deserve.

And then the first-week-of-month rule. You do realise what will eventually happen? One person will be denied the chance to enter each first week, and eventually, trophies will be given to those with no graphical ability whatsoever. Or nobody will enter anymore. Also, the first week isn't likely to ever win SOTM.

But seriously, what is the point? Letting the community to vote isn't going to make people enter more (Except for week 1 of each month, of course, but it's pretty pointless since it's going to lack the graphic). It's just going to make people vote, and that's not what SOTW wants, is it? Votes of people with no expertise in the area? I've seen bad sigs win SOTM before.

This seems like a forced change to me. Removal of Sandbox was too. All it did was move the drama and flaming to other areas (aminotrite? I think most of my warnings are from Non-RS Discussion) while also destroying the only thing that made RSBANDB unique.

This clearly is a change, but it's not a good change. Sometimes changes are not wanted, and to me, SOTW has been fine all this time. Maybe it lacks entries, but this isn't going to change it.


I'm sure they'll take any suggestions you have on boosting it's popularity into consideration. If you don't have one then theres not much point complaining be happy you still have a SOTW.

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 12th, 2009, 7:20 am 
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CreepyPirate wrote:
Slimppu wrote:
Honestly, I don't see the point in this.

SOTM doesn't really give much chance for popularity, since it's a competition for winners. SOTW, on the other hand, is far different. Anyone can enter. While true, the best signature would still win, it doesn't seem quite fair that even the crappiest sig would get votes it would not deserve.

And then the first-week-of-month rule. You do realise what will eventually happen? One person will be denied the chance to enter each first week, and eventually, trophies will be given to those with no graphical ability whatsoever. Or nobody will enter anymore. Also, the first week isn't likely to ever win SOTM.

But seriously, what is the point? Letting the community to vote isn't going to make people enter more (Except for week 1 of each month, of course, but it's pretty pointless since it's going to lack the graphic). It's just going to make people vote, and that's not what SOTW wants, is it? Votes of people with no expertise in the area? I've seen bad sigs win SOTM before.

This seems like a forced change to me. Removal of Sandbox was too. All it did was move the drama and flaming to other areas (aminotrite? I think most of my warnings are from Non-RS Discussion) while also destroying the only thing that made RSBANDB unique.

This clearly is a change, but it's not a good change. Sometimes changes are not wanted, and to me, SOTW has been fine all this time. Maybe it lacks entries, but this isn't going to change it.


I'm sure they'll take any suggestions you have on boosting it's popularity into consideration. If you don't have one then theres not much point complaining be happy you still have a SOTW.

Of course there's no POINT to it, Shane and Chief Snake and whoever are responsible are just going to disregard my opinion as "we say it's going to be better, because we know better", as it was with the removal of Sandbox. I just complain because it's fun. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to break my no-post streak of 4 months.

I guess since I'm no longer 1337, I may as well post more. You didn't get rid of me mwahahaha

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 Post subject: Re: A New Direction for SOTW
PostPosted: February 12th, 2009, 9:24 pm 
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Brad wrote:
Total Plox wrote:

I understand where you're coming from about everyone being able to vote for a SOTW since it's just for fun anyway, but then where did the rationality that judges should be used come from in the first place? Obviously someone felt that someone of expertise should be deciding who is the winner, not the general public. So what happened between then and now that changed this mindset?


I'm really not sure why a group of judges was installed in the first place when SOTW started.


If you would like some more insight on the beginnings of SOTW then you can look here. I don't know how Chewy chose his "select team of SOTW judges", If you want more information on that you may be able to contact him through MSN or he may still be using the email he registered with so you may be able to contact him through PM.

Even though I don't like this change I hope everything goes well with the new SOTW. If for some reason it doesn't go well then the judges can always be started up again but we haven't even had one week voted by the community yet so we don't know for sure how it will turn out. I am looking forward to seeing the results.

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