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I'd say yes, they're better off now than they were before. After all, they're not living under a dictatorship anymore right?

It's also important to remember that as a leader in the international community the US and others have an obligation to promote democratic values worldwide. Granted it didn't work out how it was supposed to in that the government didn't have a decent transition plan in place but compared to what's going on in Syria? Iraq's definitely better off now.

It'd be interesting to see if the people would've managed to get rid of Saddam on their own in the whole "Arab Spring" affair. Also let's also ask ourselves what the dynamic would be if Iraq was still under Saddam's control and they decided to ally with Iran for some strange reason...

As Duke said let's hope Iraq will remain at the very least friendly to the west if they won't be an ally.

Author:	trekkie [ March 20th, 2013, 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Iraq better now
With all the news on Iraq this week, I thought I would share a little article from the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21752819 Ten years after the US-led invasion of Iraq - how much has changed? We look at the numbers behind the country that is still emerging from conflict. Lets pick the brains of our fellow RSBANDBers. Is Iraq as a whole better than what it was 10 years ago? Will Iraq be the emerging democracy that will be another ally in the middle-east? and Was it worth it? I'll leave the last one more general to let you lovely people figure it out. And please, keep it PG.

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Author:	Estor [ March 20th, 2013, 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iraq better now
I remember the news talking about this. I'm really not very up to date about the situation but according to the news it is estimated the US spent 2.2 trillion dollars on the invasion. I honestly don't care what they were trying to accomplish, they didn't have the money. Taxes are supposed to be for public services and funding the military (within reason), not going completely over budget and playing super hero on the other side of the world. What the hell was the government thinking? Explains why they're in debt. Government doesn't know how to stay within its limits.

Author:	Duke Juker [ March 20th, 2013, 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iraq better now
I think it depends on who you ask, but I'd say Iraq has come out at least economically better than before. In other ways, it's debatable and I'm not so sure they are better off. I am not sure that Iraq will become a democratic ally. Only time will tell, but I'd guess probably not. We don't have a good track record of keeping ally countries in the Middle East especially when we intervene in their affairs. I don't think it was worth it. I'm not a fan of US intervention to begin with and I don't think it was worth it to put ourselves into debt or to even go to war with them in the first place. We should have stuck to the objective of getting rid of Saddam Hussein and his cronies and then been done with it. We have stayed far too long. The only way we'll no for sure if they are better off is if we pull out all the coalition forces and leave them to their independent rule.

Author:	trekkie [ March 21st, 2013, 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iraq better now
While this is here, I thought I would share this as well. http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013 ... the-invasion/100475/

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Author:	Killjoy [ March 21st, 2013, 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iraq better now
I was 8 years old when we invaded and I had no idea what was going on. My parents did a good job of shielding me from all that stuff. I don't really know enough about to to make a comment though.

Author:	Shane [ March 21st, 2013, 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iraq better now
I'd say yes, they're better off now than they were before. After all, they're not living under a dictatorship anymore right? It's also important to remember that as a leader in the international community the US and others have an obligation to promote democratic values worldwide. Granted it didn't work out how it was supposed to in that the government didn't have a decent transition plan in place but compared to what's going on in Syria? Iraq's definitely better off now. It'd be interesting to see if the people would've managed to get rid of Saddam on their own in the whole "Arab Spring" affair. Also let's also ask ourselves what the dynamic would be if Iraq was still under Saddam's control and they decided to ally with Iran for some strange reason... As Duke said let's hope Iraq will remain at the very least friendly to the west if they won't be an ally.

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Author:	Duke Juker [ March 21st, 2013, 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Iraq better now
Shane wrote: I'd say yes, they're better off now than they were before. After all, they're not living under a dictatorship anymore right? It's also important to remember that as a leader in the international community the US and others have an obligation to promote democratic values worldwide. Granted it didn't work out how it was supposed to in that the government didn't have a decent transition plan in place but compared to what's going on in Syria? Iraq's definitely better off now. It'd be interesting to see if the people would've managed to get rid of Saddam on their own in the whole "Arab Spring" affair. Also let's also ask ourselves what the dynamic would be if Iraq was still under Saddam's control and they decided to ally with Iran for some strange reason... As Duke said let's hope Iraq will remain at the very least friendly to the west if they won't be an ally. To play some devil's advocate, exchanging a dictatorship for foreign rule isn't exactly a wanted "improvement." If the people want us to come in and takeover, fine. But as far as I knew, this was not the case and we took the initiative to invade even though the people did not necessarily want it. As to this notion of "an obligation to promote democratic values worldwide," I think that is highly debatable. Where does such an obligation come from? I'd hardly call democracy perfect. And as far as the Middle East is concerned, it's not exactly the type of government model they like. Democracy's only work in so far as the people are educated and participate. If you try to force democracy on people who are neither educated nor willing to participate, it's clearly not going to work. Maybe down the road, but not immediately. As to the question of the Arab Spring, it's a big what if. However, I would presume it was going to happen eventually that the people would overthrow Saddam. He would have died eventually, too. He was 69 when he was finally executed. I think the war, if anything, was a chance for us to seize power and try to dictate the affairs of the Middle East. Though, I only think it ***** off Iran and others more so than made them happy. Again, mostly playing devil's advocate here, but I do have a real qualm with this notion of "...an obligation to promote democratic values worldwide." Show me where it says that we have said obligation in the Constitution. Actually, don't bother. You won't find it there.

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