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Bonds, for or against?
https://www.rsbandb.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=85161		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Shane [ September 25th, 2013, 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Bonds, for or against?
Simple poll.

The update rating is one thing but I want an actual poll going into this weeks show :).
Author:  Adbot [ September 25th, 2013, 3:13 pm ]
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Author:  Bonsai99 [ September 25th, 2013, 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
I don't think Jagex expected the largely positive acceptance of this update. I'm all for it.
Author:  Col ton [ September 25th, 2013, 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
Despite my negative Runewire post, I've since had a change of heart. Way to go, MMG! It may be hard to internalize for some, but in the big picture, it benefits the game!
Author:  Lord Rickles [ September 25th, 2013, 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
One word: Genius.

I will elaborate further in my Informer article in a few days!
Author:  PoisonNova [ September 25th, 2013, 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
I was a bit ambiguous towards this update at first, but i'd rather let people have the choice of acquiring gold from Jagex instead of gold farmers. For.
Author:  TekkersDE [ September 25th, 2013, 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
I think that the only thing I'll be using it for is to buy membership (poorer irl than in game), so I guess it's pretty convenient and will keep a few dollars in my pocket :-)
Author:  Adbot [ September 25th, 2013, 6:50 pm ]
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Author:  Jasonmrc [ September 25th, 2013, 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
Bonsai99 wrote:
I don't think Jagex expected the largely positive acceptance of this update. I'm all for it.

Where have you seen these posts? Most of the posts I saw on the RS Bonds forums have been negative.

I'm skeptical of it because it is just legalized RWT. Anyway you slice it it is still RWT(do not compare this to membership, you all are smarter than that argument).

I'll wait to see how this all turns out. The next few weeks will be interesting.

The thing I dislike the most I think is that they say they don't want to add anything that makes RS P2W or decreases the value of our achievements, and then they go and add this, which blatantly does both.

Meh, I'll end with this quote:
Quote:
"It sets a bad precedent."
Author:  Bonsai99 [ September 25th, 2013, 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
Jasonmrc wrote:
Bonsai99 wrote:
I don't think Jagex expected the largely positive acceptance of this update. I'm all for it.

Where have you seen these posts? Most of the posts I saw on the RS Bonds forums have been negative.

I'm skeptical of it because it is just legalized RWT. Anyway you slice it it is still RWT(do not compare this to membership, you all are smarter than that argument).

I'll wait to see how this all turns out. The next few weeks will be interesting.

The thing I dislike the most I think is that they say they don't want to add anything that makes RS P2W or decreases the value of our achievements, and then they go and add this, which blatantly does both.

Meh, I'll end with this quote:
Quote:
"It sets a bad precedent."

Well their Youtube video announcing it had surprisingly few dislikes and a lot of likes, usually if the playerbase doesn't largely accept an update the dislike button gets hammered.
Author:  CreepyPirate [ September 26th, 2013, 6:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
They keep rolling out this excuse about battling bots/gold farmers. I thought they stopped all the botting/farming? :^o I think legalizing it wont make a difference. The bots will sell it far cheaper than the market will.

All this does is legalize it so more people will be buying gold and buying their achievements. Just devalues everything further - not that theres much worth to anything in RS anymore. IMO of course.
Author:  1 Stone Pwn [ September 26th, 2013, 7:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
I think part of it is giving the people who would buy gold from a third party a safe way to do so. The people who are worried about rates are still gonna go through the third party sites, but I think bonds are a nice addition for people who would like to buy membership with gold, simple as that. Calling this update a full-on endorsement of RWT isn't quite right in this case since players can't sell their gold for money.
Author:  Duke Juker [ September 26th, 2013, 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
As I mentioned in my post in the update thread, I lean more so against bonds than for. Here's my reasoning.

For one thing, I find it troubling that Jagex is only dealing with gold farmers only and not the actual players themselves who are engaging in RWT. This is clearly evident from Mod MMG's remarks. If 40-50% of the community is participating in RWT activities and Jagex knows it, why aren't they banning these players? Obviously, if Jagex did this, they would lose a lot of revenue from membership accounts. Though I don't know this to be the case, it's my best guess as to why Jagex doesn't do more against those players who partake of RWT. If Jagex truly wants to eliminate RWT, they need to be eliminating both the supply (gold farmers) AND the demand (RWT players).

Second, bonds essentially work by cutting out the middle man: gold farmers. Now, rather than players having to go to third party gold farming sites to purchase gp, Jagex provides the means by which one can attain gp: purchasing bonds. Bonds have inherent value being exchangeable for membership, SoF spins, and Soloman's Rune coins. For as little as $5, players can obtain a minimum of 5 million gp by trading a bond to another player. Now players who typically go to gold farmers can get RS gp in a legitimate, safe way provided by Jagex. It's a win-win for everyone involved...except gold farmers and people who legitimately earn wealth without using real life money to do so. But I digress.

Third, what impact will this have on the game? It's very unclear at this point what effects this will have on gold farming, the RS economy, and the community as a whole. Bonds definitely introduce an aspect of "pay-to-win" to the game. As mentioned above, bonds are a legitimate way for RS players to obtain in game wealth using real life means. Granted, this won't be the case for every player. Some will never be interested in buying bonds. Some will play the game their own way without having the need to turn to bonds. But for others, they will see bonds as an opportunity to use real life resources to achieve an in game benefit. A game should never be about who has real life money to get ahead. Games ought to avoid incorporating any real life advantage into game play.

Jagex means well by the introduction of bonds, that much I can see in Mod MMG's remarks and the rhetoric Jagex has put out for years. However, I am still skeptical as to the end goal as Jagex will benefit regardless of the consequences this update has on the game. It's like a government outlawing the sale of drugs, then turning around and approving only drug sales by the government. It's ironic and an ethically questionable methodology. Although I think it's nice that players now have some kind of means for using in game gp to buy membership, players should also be able to use in game gp to directly pay for bonds, membership, spins, or rune coins as well. Not only would this be a great money sink, but it would cut back on gold farming even further...at least that's the hope.

That all being said, Jagex is well within its rights to introduce bonds and to engage in RWT themselves as they own the game. And Runescape isn't the only game to introduce this type of feature. Many games have pay for content features for players that are willing to part with their money. Does that mean a game company should take advantage of the opportunity to make more money? Well, that depends on where you stand. But as for me, I would say no.

The bottom line in all of this is that it's up to Jagex and the Runescape community to determine what kind of game they want Runescape to be. Do they want it to be a game where gold farming, RWTing, and real life advantages influence the progress of players who can afford it? Or do they want a game that does not allow such things...a game that isn't about what your skill levels are or how much wealth you have, but instead about having fun and taking out of it what you put into it? Jagex seems to have made their choice. Where will the community stand?
Author:  Ranging God [ September 26th, 2013, 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
I actually think this is the best option for the issue.

Side note, I think I am going to buy members tonight. After this 6 months hiatus.
Author:  Pyrnassius [ September 27th, 2013, 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
I am all for it.. I believe it is the right direction for them to take to protect both the game and their company and the players. Let's face it, if there weren't players buying gold, then this wouldn't be necessary, but the fact is that too many players are taking the quick way out instead of enjoying the game and feeling the sense of satisfaction one gets from working hard and achieving a goal. By Jagex doing this, at least those players are contributing to the continued success and development of the game. I have put my thoughts on youtube if anyone wants to listen to the ramblings of this players thoughts, just look up my channel, Pyrnassius RS. I won't post a link here, because I am not sure if it is within the rules, but I would lovbe to hear everyone else's thoughts too.
Author:  Mr Bistro [ September 27th, 2013, 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
I'm for it, I feel that the Eve Online approach is a really great idea how you can earn membership in game.
Author:  CreepyPirate [ September 28th, 2013, 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bonds, for or against?
MEANWHILE!

That's funny. There CS was garbage in the first place. Why do you guys still buy this BS about stopping RWT and bots? Seriously they've played that card like 5 times now. Everytime they play it they conveniently add on a new way to get more of your cash.

The last "idea" didn't work and this wont either. It's not bettering the game it's just filling there pockets. Another revenue stream so they can continue pushing out....alright so i went to there website to find the latest actual content update and it's just **** I'm having to go to the next page of news to get an actual update...jesus. What are you paying for? WTF so I'm in august and theres still no actual game updates unless you count there crap achievement system? Lots of ******* about wheel of fortune and some solodude store. Only 42k people playing on a saturday evening. Used to be close to 300k i suppose they was all evil bots. :-%
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