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 Post subject: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 2:43 pm 
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Continued from a discussion on runewire.

Workman:
Allow me to be the one to put the nail in Runescape's coffin.
They've made the final step and proven eternally they've lost interest in honesty, dependability, and quality.
I've had a plethora of account issues recently and have had to rely extensively on their email support system. Response times, as a p2p player, are ridiculous. The company's lost all interest---
In their playership, contradicted themselves, and become just another pay to win mmo. I feel bad for the people who continue to deny this and defend jagex so foolishly and blindly.
I've had some great times on runescape and with many of you here. But anyone who still pays them monthly is a discredit to us all and is a large part of the problem.

Myself:
"Pay to win" No I don't think so. I don't think they have achieved that yet. I don't agree what that they are doing in regards to the paying for spins, but I don't think the game is now pay to win.
(Seeing how there really is no winning in the game.) Also, no one really cares about your specific issues (sorry), and that isn't going to affect their rep at all.
(So you are not adding any nails to the coffin) Also it is extremely ignorant of you to blame everyone that pays for a game that they like to play. If they want to pay for it that is their issue not..
yours. That is like saying, "AHH I had an issue with this company, so everyone else who gives them money sucks!" Who are you to tell be people what they are doing is wrong?
This comment is ignorance of a company at it's finest.

Workman:
My issue is representative of their whole attitude to their players, Killjoy. Perhaps if you had a similar issue, you might care more.
If there's a way to "win" at runescape, It would be by achieving 99 in all skills. Which is now directly and readily available to do by buying spins.
And for you to sit complacently while jagex shoves all this ******* down all of our throats is indeed part of the problem.

Myself:
Do you honestly think Jagex, or any other companies care about their customers? Absolutely not. They are a company first. Their primary goal is gain money and their customer come second like every...
company out there. Also, or ask other people to quit because of your small problems that don't affect us at all is *******. If we are still having fun then we are going to continue to pay.
Also, I feel like runescape players have a huge sense of entitlement to the game and the company, which they don't. They pay $6 a month to play a game and that is what they get. You don't get to...
design the game or choose what Jagex does. They can do what ever they so please. If an individual doesn't like a business practice then they or she can quit, but you have absolutely..
NO RIGHT to make another play feel guilty for paying for a game or blame them for a companies decisions. Ridiculous sense of entitlement that you do not have.

Workman:
You're saying we should be mindless sheep who submit to the will of the big bad company and oh how dare I incite a riot. You're literally taking the part of the person trying to hold back
the floodgates on change and positive reform. We, as customers, have the right and power to change things, if a company is operating immorally. Take Chik-Fil-A as an example.
Also, saying that companies are all soulless is just not true. I can think of several organizations off the top of my head that Care and respect their customers, because they realize that customers
are people, too. In turn, these companies gain the reputation of being helpful and that's part of what gains them a positive rep.



I figured I would move it here because it is a good conversation.
Lets continue:

I am sure that there are some companies out there that really do care for their customers, but lets face it, Jagex is not one of them. I would have to say that most game companies are not. And what, if we are quit runescape that is going to make a difference? Absolutely not. That is just going to make Jagex look for more ways to make money. Any yes. I am saying that you have no right to say, "anyone who still plays sucks. How could you support a company like that?" And that is their prerogative. You know? I bet there are lots of people who support Chik-Fil-A. And that is their right. (Look at the Chik-Fil-A support day for an example) And you think that the people that no longer buy food at Chik-Fil-A is going to make a difference? Nope. They will not change their stance. If anything maybe some more people will eat a little better. (But they will probably just go buy McDonald's or something.

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 Post subject: Register and login to get these in-post ads to disappear
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 2:43 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 2:47 pm 
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Your lack of faith in the power of the masses seems to be your problem. People can and do change policies, action, attention and protest are powerful tools for change.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 2:54 pm 
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I'm saying that they don't have to if they don't want to. And that if they are happy playing a game and they want to keep playing it that is one thing. But you have no right to call other people to action if they don't want to. I am also saying that Jagex doesn't have to change and that they player pays for what he gets. If her doesn't like what he is getting then he can stop paying. Other than that, the player has no right.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 2:58 pm 
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I have every right in the world to call other players to action, whether they like it or not. It's up to them if they act on it, though. I'm not MAKING youdo anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:01 pm 
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Thank you killjoy.

Killjoy4eva wrote:
I'm saying that they don't have to if they don't want to. And that if they are happy playing a game and they want to keep playing it that is one thing. But you have no right to call other people to action if they don't want to. I am also saying that Jagex doesn't have to change and that they player pays for what he gets. If her doesn't like what he is getting then he can stop paying. Other than that, the player has no right.


I don't understand what the issue is. The only thing that I seem to gather from Workman's argument is that Jagex at one point years ago said they would not do something and now they are. The goal of any business is to provide some sort of service and deliver a profit. That's it, there's no other goal. Corporations are not held accountable to "the power of the masses" they're held accountable by their bottom line. Corporations are not government run, you can't change a corporation like you can change a government. If some people get joy out of the product delivered that's an added benefit. Our world is about money. The UK where Runescape was created is a country with capitalist ideals and that is the very goal of any capitalist business, to make a profit. The best course of action then for those that feel the same as you Workman is to simply unsubscribe, change your password, and throw it away. Never come back, because even if you play F2P you are contributing to Jagex ad revenue.

There's a silent majority out there who have no problem with Squeal or any of the other changes that have been made. We play the game because we still find something of value there. We play the game because it's something we grew up with and enjoy spending a bit of time to relax there. I'm with Killjoy, you have no right to say, "anyone who still pays them monthly is a discredit to us all and is a large part of the problem." I choose where to put my money, somewhere that I feel has value.

In my view the problem with the game is not the corporate practices Jagex chooses to engage (which they are 100% within their own right to do) but the player base itself. The pace of updates hasn't changed since 2009. The only thing that's changed this year has been Squeal and the drive for membership, which again is a totally valid business decision. The player base revolves around some idea that removing squeal, solomon's, and all the membership promotion the game would go back to the good old days, it wouldn't. If it wasn't this, there'd be something else to complain about. It happened when the wilderness and free trade was removed, it happened when the huge quest push was happening and some quests gave defence xp, it probably even happened when RS 2 was released. The only difference this time is that the player base feels they have wind in their sales because of Jagex's past anti-RWT posts.

I like squeal and all the other changes that have been made. I've been advocating for micro-transactions since 2010 at least, they're finally here. I'll probably buy a spin pack later this month to see if I can finish of my dragon ceremonial set or queens guard. One final thing Workman, are you fine with Xbox live transactions? How about TF2?

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:05 pm 
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Quote:
But anyone who still pays them monthly is a discredit to us all and is a large part of the problem.


That is the quote I am referring to. That is like saying, "if you eat Chick-fil-A you must hate the gays!!!"
Absolutely not. Maybe their chicken is just **** delicious. Maybe I don't agree with some of Jagex's decisions. But maybe the game is still great and I still want to play. It is the same thing with the whole, "We pay we PK" ******* that happened how many years ago. Then Jagex come out of the woodworks and tries to seem like this great company that is listening to their players. No. They just want to seem that way. People are still going to play to play the game and if they want to then that is their choice. You have to right to yell at the people buying Chick-fil-A screaming, "YOU ARE THE REASON *** MARRIAGE IS ILLEGAL YOU ********!" In the same respect you have no right to yell at the p2p runescaple player.

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 Post subject: Register and login to get these in-post ads to disappear
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:05 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:13 pm 
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I'm not ok with any multiplayer game that allows players to use real life money to gain an advantage. That's my stance across the board. And Killjoy, I completely disagree with you about the CFA thing. In supporting their company you're indirectly contributing to a cause used to harm other people. Would you feel differently if every time you paid them they killed someone? It's the same principle, just on a smaller scale.

Shane, you seem all to content to sit back and watch corporations eat the world. "Business Business Business"

Businesses are built to cater to the needs of the people. If the people are unhappy, the business is failing.


Last edited by Shane on August 5th, 2012, 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Please don't double post.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:19 pm 
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I should also note that Chick-Fil-A were the ones standing up for moral values, they weren't the ones operating immorally.
32 min ago by Shane

Wait, are you kidding me? Are you literally that stupid?

Denying another human's freedom is not moral. I'm truly sorry for you if your orwellian reactionary mindset allows you to think that's the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:19 pm 
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Workman wrote:
Businesses are built to cater to the needs of the people. If the people are unhappy, the business is failing.

And this is where you are wrong. OHHHH SO WRONG.
Please never go into business because you will fall on your face so hard.

And buy from company's because I like their products. I will buy Kraft idems not because I support their stance on *** marriage, but because I **** love Oreos and Mac and Cheese. I will also but Chick-fil-A, not because their stance on *** marriage, but because their chicken and biscuits are like *** in my mouth.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:22 pm 
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As I said the role of a corporation is to create a profit for themselves. I'd hardly call it "eating the world" and if that was the case would be so so tiny compared to any anti-trust suit. The only way a business is failing is if they're losing money. If people are unhappy with what the business is offering they can choose not to purchase the service, if enough people do that then the business will be failing. A business doesn't fail just because a minority of people are unhappy.

With my knowledge of programming and software engineering if I was in a situation where RS wasn't delivering what I wanted and I knew what was wrong I would make my own game. I would make my own game and try to cater to some of the people who are apparently upset with what Jagex has been doing. That's how the world works. I'll say it again, a corporation does not need to listen to people. People need to vote with their money.

I'm not stupid. I just view what they were supporting as a moral value.

Anymore posts on this topic relating to Chick-fil-A and *** marriage will be pruned into a different topic in Non-RS Discussion since that's an issue as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:24 pm 
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Businesses are created to cater to the people's needs because the people's needs are directly tied to their wallets. I'm not trying to make the point that businesses are friendly neighborhood do gooders, but simply that if the people see that their needs aren't being met, and they take action, they'll make changes.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:27 pm 
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Workman wrote:
Businesses are created to cater to the people's needs because the people's needs are directly tied to their wallets. I'm not trying to make the point that businesses are friendly neighborhood do gooders, but simply that if the people see that their needs aren't being met, and they take action, they'll make changes.

And what does Jagex do? Supply your need for what?

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:31 pm 
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Jagex is an entertainment company. Contained within the entertainment circle is content, competition, atmosphere, etc etc


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:32 pm 
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Workman wrote:
Jagex is an entertainment company. Contained within the entertainment circle is content, competition, atmosphere, etc etc

And entertainment is a want. Not a need. There for they have no recruitment to provide anything to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion about Jagex.
PostPosted: August 5th, 2012, 3:34 pm 
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Wants and needs are, business wise, the same thing, Killjoy. A company that sells water is the same as a company that sells jewelry.


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