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Jagex, think before making an update.
https://www.rsbandb.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41432		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  MattVortex [ November 13th, 2006, 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Jagex, think before making an update.
It has become evident over the last few years that Jagex do not always consider every player when updating their game. Not considering every player causes divides and schisms, which make some players hate other players, as well as hating Jagex. This is obviously not a good thing.

One of the worst of these updates is probably that of pure essence. Jagex are presented with a problem – and that is of macroers. These players are breaking the rules, screwing with the economy, making millions for themselves. Before now, Jagex banned these players, but they got more and more clever, making new ways to prevent being banned, prevent being found. Hell, there are even some macro bots that will 'type' generic phrases, just like players do, like 'Mining level?' etc, etc.

And so Jagex decided in their *cough* infinite wisdom that they would do something to prevent people from wanting to macro in the first place. One of the largest macro markets is in essence.

Now, there was a huge economy in which poorer free-to-play people would mine thousands of essence, and sell to members – hell, even I did some of this, mining 5000 essence and making a nice little 150k. Jagex decided, as I'm sure you all know, to divide essence into two forms, normal essence and 'pure' essence, the latter of which is only available to members, and is required to make members runes.

Now, this is a good solution, in a way, to the macro problem. Macroers are less likely to make members accounts, because if they are found and get banned, that’s $5 down the drain. In this move, Jagex closed a very large chunk of the f2p/p2p essence market, making it very difficult for macroers to make money this way.

However, as you all know, this completely screwed the economy. The price of normal essence, which was edging towards 60gp each, shot back down to a price of 20gp each. Pure essence was instantly expensive, around 110gp each, because members don't like mining essence too much.

With this update, Jagex closed the cross-f2p/p2p essence market by probably 80%. The vast majority of p2p players who bought essence bought it to make Nature or Law runes, and then, suddenly, they couldn’t. Hundreds of f2p players who made their living selling to members hated the update. Hundreds of p2p players who now have to pay triple the amount they would have done for essence hated the update. I could not have made my 150k, which I have now used to flip deaths, get a million gp, and with that money gain 60 magic.

Surely Jagex would have seen this coming?

Yes, they would have. Jagex do plan and look ahead, as we have seen in construction – it was designed to partially stabilize the economy, and to be honest, they have done a very good job of it. I have not seen the price of the blue party hat move much since construction at all. They do look ahead, they do plan ahead, and they do consider the future. So why didn’t they with the pure essence update?

Z0mg th3y hat3 us all!!!11!!One!!!

Jagex seriously need to start thinking about the players. They make an update in which a booming business between f2p and p2p is shut down overnight, ‘because of the macroers’. While macroers do exist, 99% of the players who sold essence to members were not macroers – and yet Jagex seem to completely ignore them. It’s like placing everyone in prison because some criminals stole money from the government – not everyone is a criminal, but everyone is punished.

What Jagex need more than everything is to start using more humans and not using so many traps or blocks to stop the macroers. A J-mod standing by the willows in Edgeville in basically any world will see a horrible amount of macroing going on. And a J-mod could instantly ban them, on the spot. That’s what Jagex needs.

If it were not for the F2p/P2p essence market, I would not have become a millionaire. Now, someone else will not be able to be a millionaire. It was a great way for lower-leveled players to make money, and while it might not be too efficient with a bronze pickaxe and a mining level of two, it’s still a good way for those just off Tutorial Island to make a little bit of cash.

So the message the Jagex is this: think about everyone next time you make an update. A far better way of stopping the macroers would be just to get a J-mod out there banning them on the spot, not screwing over the economy or with computer tricks that can be easily outsmarted.
Author:  Adbot [ November 13th, 2006, 2:42 pm ]
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Author:  ferggsy [ November 13th, 2006, 3:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thats so true exelent point, you need a spot on the newspaper crew.
Author:  wiz126 [ November 13th, 2006, 3:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
My explenation is why its not possible for jagex to do:

Your solution is by fare so EXPENSIVE that no compeny will be consider.
Putting a J-mod in every server will mean 4 j mods in every server (1 for wc, 1 for fishing, 1 for mining, and 1 thiving). now thats not it , this also mean putting 8 j-mods in every server. Why is that well 4 in the day and 4 at nught (macros don't sleep, j mods do). Now let multiple this by 132 (132 servers) thats 1,54 J-mod , jagex staff that do nothing but stopping macro.

Jagex have around 320 staff now, hireing 1,056 will make jagex bankrapt, let at all make maco move to another fishing spot in runescape, or another wc spot there are allot of places to cover them all you need 10k j mods.......

a better solution is let jagex what they do best, IMPROVE THE GAME
Author:  Flare_Ember [ November 13th, 2006, 3:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's a bit of a late rant and while I agree with some parts, it's difficult for Jagex to actually please everyone regardless of if they tried to update around the players. This is why you'll get "high level" updates and "low level" updates because at the end of the day it's still going to annoy someone.

I personally dislike construction, I see it as a filler skill, a complete waste of money, ditto farming it's a filler skill a complete waste of time, I can easily get more herbs from killing chaos druids in the time it takes for a piddly ranarr weed patch to grow and die five times while I "look after" the stupid thing.

Why didn't jagex think and take into account mine and some other people's feelings in this regard? Several people don't like Farming or Construction and don't agree with the skills or their purpose (Goldsink and time-waster imo) therefore it shouldn't have been released, alas, this type of thinking is hypocritical I suppose, because there are some who will have wet dreams over the skills and their purposes defending them to the very hilt in a cotton-wool-over-the-eyes-way.

Anyway, more to the point, the pure essence update was harsh especially on both sets of players (F2p and P2P), but was predictable really, ever since the whole "fatigue" crap that piddled out in RSC and their massive clampdown on "macroers" which, I have beef with, because I see this as a geniue distruption to an other-wise enjoyable game and I disagree with Jagex's subtle *SPAM RANDOM EVENTS ON ANYTHING OVER LEVEL 80 FIFTY TIMES AS MUCH* tactic, which is evident (I skilled at level 3 to 80 in *four* stats and barely got any random events, yet while I was on my level 90 combat account back in the day random events popped up for me just for logging in, walking two yards and opening a door...)

Maybe they do need to re-valuate how they trap and macroers, maybe they do need to re-think future updates to accomodate the economy and it's players (legitimate players need to start getting rewarded not punished for playing the game, I agree) but I doubt you'll find them implementing a J-Mod around certain areas of the game, because:

1) They're lazy.
2) They don't care as much about macroers really, it's an excuse to up the difficulty/tedium of the game
3) They have people like you and me to hit the report button for it, so they can claim "lack of evidence" everytime regardless of whenever there *is* evidence or not

If they really were worried about it there would be more of a clamp-down, more investigation into claims of autoing/macroing and less ways of penalising legitimate players...

End of the day though, it's easier for them to throw in random events, put in skills that are difficultish to macro (farming/construction) and put down measures such as pure essence regardless of the impact on player's lives and so on...

And I think I'll be quiet now, I've sorted ranted myself O_O sorry :(
Author:  Anubis [ November 13th, 2006, 3:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
It happens everywhere. People focus on the bad things rather than the good things. With Jagex, they focus on punishing the bad rather than awarding the good, in real life, people always remember the times their parents made them cry rather than when their parents got them a comic every week.

Yes, pure essence was a crappy update. I will -never- buy pure essence because of it. 110gp for something that takes a second to get? Pssh.

Jagex can't be in-game all the time, okay, perhaps it would help if they had J-Mods patrolling runescape and seeing what people want and do, but in the end, they're a company and if they lacked updates because they were banning auto-ers, would that not also result in complaints?

They can't please everyone. The runescape players don't like to be pleased. They -always- find something wrong with -everything-.
Author:  Brad [ November 13th, 2006, 3:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Anubis wrote:
They can't please everyone. The runescape players don't like to be pleased. They -always- find something wrong with -everything-.


That's true. Whatever Jagex do, whatever updates they put out. Someone will find something to moan about.
Author:  Adbot [ November 13th, 2006, 3:29 pm ]
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Author:  CreepyPirate [ November 13th, 2006, 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's a mmog, any change to it will cause change to the entire game, it's impossible to know how things will work out, impossible to foresee all possible outcomes.

Best they can do is go with it and see how well it works.
Author:  xOhYax [ November 13th, 2006, 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
No matter what they do it will upset someone, there are three groups of people, Regular, pure, skill pure. Its hard to please all 3 at once. Even if the skill is non combat related, such as pure ess, i do not think every player should be punished for the actions of the few who do wrong, i mean, macro people dont really effect the game that much, they usually sell the gold anyway. not my problem. and besides, only like 5% macro, and they punish all 100% of us, wtf?
Author:  Jaden [ November 13th, 2006, 6:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmm...good point. Hard to please some people these days.
Author:  Mushroom Queen [ November 13th, 2006, 7:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
I see some of your points and I understand how frustrated some are by it, but things like this have to happen some time or later. To me, it's fair play vs. cheap prices. I prefer fair play.
Author:  xOhYax [ November 13th, 2006, 7:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
look at it this way, its just as easy to mine pure ess, so u can make more money as a member mining pure ess
Author:  The Haysta [ November 13th, 2006, 9:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
CreepyPirate wrote:
It's a mmog, any change to it will cause change to the entire game, it's impossible to know how things will work out, impossible to foresee all possible outcomes.

Best they can do is go with it and see how well it works.


It isn't impossible to see how things will work out, just improbable.

Jagex should know that most ess (at the time) came from F2Pers who were satisfied with what little they had.

As soon as you cut off the main supply of ess. Price goes after faster the Auguste's balloon.

I think that the effect of pure ess was predictable...
Author:  The Killer [ November 14th, 2006, 3:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Pros.
- I made over 10m merching pure essence. Bought them from low levels for 50 gp, sold at 110 gp.

Cons.
-F2P is left with only Lobsters as their moneymaker. As the essence is now near useless, and yew trees filthy with macros, F2P will have to rely on Lobsters, and TBH it really is hard to find buyers in F2P unless a pure is willing to buy in bulk.

-P2P runecrafters no longer can power train without losing much money. 5k rune essence used to cost 100k, so apparently the cost to power level is now five times more expensive. Unless you're a merchant, expect to go bankrupt real fast.

Now it is a lose-lose-win-win situation (forget the other 'win' if you're not a merchant)

F2Pers lose. P2Pers lose. Macros win(Moved on to yew trees now). Merchants win.
Author:  Brandt [ November 14th, 2006, 6:59 am ]
Post subject: 
yeah, their bringing out a lot of updates that they see are great to stop macroers, changing the game ect....Ive seen macro-script (no i dont macro), and it relyies on runescape functions...why dont they just change some things in the coding...that would slow them down, or get a better anti-macro system like they said they were getting, lol. Why change the game to make p2p happy and f2p mad when its the f2p ppl becoming p2p, lol. Make the game seem back to the f2p ppl, they wont want to pay $5, they'll leave, that simple
Author:  Ami22 [ November 14th, 2006, 7:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Mushroom Queen wrote:
I see some of your points and I understand how frustrated some are by it, but things like this have to happen some time or later. To me, it's fair play vs. cheap prices. I prefer fair play.


Took the words right out of my mouth....

Yeah. Don't be so angry about it. You did say that Jagex did a good job on Construction, so why be pessimistic about the "pure ess" thing?

Plus, the pure ess update was forev4rh ago, so why the big deal now?
:roll:
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