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 Post subject: Following Idiots...
PostPosted: November 16th, 2011, 10:57 am 
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I saw a video from a stand-up comedian and talked about something interesting.
The humanity kills every good and/or smart person and doesn't even try to harm the *******.

For exemple, Jesus Christ. The nicest person that ever existed. Death by crucifixion

Galileo who claimed Earth is round. Sent under imprisonment.
Gandhi, assassinated by gunshot.
John Lennon, who wrote ''All you need is Love'', ''War is Over'' and ''Imagine'', shot 4 times on his back.

But when it comes to people generally considered jerks, like Bush...nobody even tried to harm him. The worst thing that happened to him is that somebody threw him a shoe lol.


So it made me wonder...
Do we choose to follow the wrong people to have someone to blame for our misery?

Nietzsche once said humanity invented God to have someone to blame. If bad things happen to me, it's because God hates me. But since religion doesn't have the importance it had back then, do we choose stupid people as leaders to remplace him?
I think, yes.

What are your thoughts?

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Last edited by Iron Maiden on November 16th, 2011, 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Register and login to get these in-post ads to disappear
PostPosted: November 16th, 2011, 10:57 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Following Idiots...
PostPosted: November 16th, 2011, 2:14 pm 
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well as shane would say

"those who follow evil men blindly should be shot for treason."

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 Post subject: Re: Following Idiots...
PostPosted: November 16th, 2011, 2:18 pm 
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In my experience, most individuals are content being sheep and will tolerate a lot of abuse from those in control until a strong leader emerges to suggest change. That can make them a bit of a target from those who benefit from maintaining the status quo.

Would you be upset if your workers in Miscellania decided they wanted more money and an equal slice of the collected resources? I know I'd be looking around for the worker that thought that idea up.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Idiots...
PostPosted: November 16th, 2011, 9:44 pm 
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Where to being and how simple a response could I make...

1. Politicians are quite a different breed of human.
2. You are stating opinions of people. I don't think people could universally agree that Bush was a bad president. It's only an opinion.
3. I'm sure people tried to harm or assassinate Bush, but given that the President is one of the most (if not the most) guarded persons in the world, you probably won't see anything happen. That one guy threw the shoes at him. That wasn't an attempt to harm?
4. Saying religion doesn't have the same importance now that it did then is also an opinion. Many people still view religion as highly important. But as times have changed, we've gone from religious explanations to secular explanations. It's much better to blame something you can see or feel rather than something you aren't sure exists or can't be as directly blamed for problems. God did after all leave it to humans to rule themselves quite a while ago.
5. Your question is loaded. Are all leaders humans choose bad? Do we choose them only to later blame them when they screw up? I don't think humans choose to follow stupid people. In fact, politicians are sometimes some of the smartest and cleverest people the world has. Just because you don't agree with them or what they do or vote for doesn't make them stupid.
6. What you have described is also misleading. People did follow those men. Jesus, Galileo, and Gandhi all had followings and still have followings to this day. They threateningly challenged those in authority and with power and suffered the consequences because of it. That's just how the world is and how it treats the "better" men of society.

To summarize my thoughts, I would say that no, we don't choose the wrong people to have someone to blame for our misery. I think we choose to elect people or to allow people to govern over us who do not always have the people's best interests in mind. I don't think we intentionally do it to have someone to blame for our misery later, but in the hopes that our misery will be alleviated or lessened. When people do come along who are good and have the right ideas, they are often times removed from society by the powers at be simply because they are a threat and because their ideas are the right ideas. I don't think these leaders are stupid or idiots, but rather people who become dependent on power and are forced to make decisions to stay in power despite the affect on the people.

People put trust in their leaders, but when this trust is violated, there is not a lot people can do to fix it unless they put all efforts into finding a better position to fill the position. Regardless, they attempt to choose people who will make the best decision, not to serve as a scapegoat when misery just so happens to come along. Does that make any sense? Btw, if you couldn't tell, I'm not a fan of Nietzsche. I thought his views and ideas were quite pessimistic and unreasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Idiots...
PostPosted: November 16th, 2011, 10:24 pm 
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Then, I could use a better example...People that will be probably undoubtly considered ''wrong'' by everybody...like Hitler, Staline, etc. Those weren't killed. And yet they were dictators that murdered ALOT of people.
Can't say nobody tried to harm them, but nobody managed to kill them.
I just find it ironic that people like JFK, Lennon, Jesus Christ were killed and yet didn't do anything wrong. But when it comes to dictators that killed millions of innocent...They weren't shot to death or anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Following Idiots...
PostPosted: November 17th, 2011, 12:13 pm 
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John Lennon did drugs therefore deserved to die if he was not rotting in a prison cell for the rest of his life. He also went on about peace and end to war and stuff, what a hippie. And Jesus died for your sins. Be grateful.

But really, wasn't it pretty much universally (which I guess means non-republicans) agreed that Bush was a terrible person? Wasn't even just a bad president, it was someone it would be devastating to wait out their term (how did the world survive!). Wasn't his re-election campaign based at least in part on homophobia too? Sad sad sad sad reflection on America if it was. Nice "freedom".

But yeah, if you are challenging people with power there are people who will want to silence you. And it's a lot harder to silence people with power.


There were people who supported Hitler though, all he wanted was Germany #1 and freedom for Germans. And he took Germany out of poverty or something like that? That'd sit well with Germans. So what he had to scapegoat a few groups to do it? Or did he just take it all too far?
(Obviously I don't agree with any of that, but simplified there are parallels to be drawn)

Stalin was killing off everyone who came close to him so I dunno how easy it would be to kill him.


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 Post subject: Register and login to get these in-post ads to disappear
PostPosted: November 17th, 2011, 12:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Following Idiots...
PostPosted: November 17th, 2011, 12:42 pm 
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You've just cherry picked a bunch of do gooders who happened to meet unfortunate ends. I could pick plenty that lived long and died of natural causes.

Theres no right or wrong, good or evil really. Who decides whats right and wrong? What gives anyone that right? Who judges us in the long run? Unless you believe in some divine being nobody does. So what you do in this life really doesn't matter. Cause you're just an unimportant little spec that the universe wont miss when you kick the bucket.

We don't choose the wrong people there just the ones willing to step on anyone in there way to get what they want. Those sort of people naturally float to the top because there not held back by right or wrongs. There not going to lose any sleep over screwing people over or even killing off a few specs that wont be missed to get what they want. You can pretty much guarentee anyone with any sort of power has screwed over some people to get there in one way or another. It's dog eat dog. The only thing that holds you back are your own personal morals. I doubt Hitler had many if any and for a while there he was free to do anything he liked.

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